1916's in, tuning???

[deertag]

Got the 1916's in this week.  Sometimes I'm thinking ... I have no idea what I'm doing.  But pressing on... I'm shooting them full length, 125g fields, 3 fingers under.  The spine seems to be fine ... bare shaft and feathered I am hitting vertically pretty much center.  Here's the problems...
-when bare shaft tuning I got tail nock high about 4 inches and nock right about 4 inches no matter where I put the string nock from 1" down to even with shelf, i shoot 3 under and read some old posts to put 2 nocks on the string to keep arrow from sliding. Added another nock and it fixed nock high instantly.
-However, now I'm nock low about 2 inches and can't get it straight.
-with feathered arrows my tail nock right 4" is now better but tail is still off to the right about 2".

I tried split fingers again, but I shoot way high and its hard to set my gap/point of aim unless I shoot 3 under.

I am now shooting feathers consistently but arrow tails ending up 2" low and 2" right. I'm worried since I only shoot 41# that I will lose the precious little penetration I can muster with these arrows hitting off.

Any help/ideas would be very greatly appreciated.
thanks, david

[Gregg S]

It does depend on your draw length, but, I would try a heavier point to start with. I have field points from 100 grn. to 250 grn. that I use for tuning. It also depends on the bow itself. Recure or longbow and how close to center it is cut. The fastest and easiest thing to do is try diferent points. If that doesn't work then you can go from there.

[Tater John]

Don't jump around, shoot three under with two nock points if thats what you like and stick to it. Perfect your form, perfect your form, perfect your form.

 recurve or longbow, is the shelf built out, are you right handed?

X150 martin, right handed correct? I think you have the correct shafts for your poundage

[deertag]

Right handed,
riser is cut center,
the curved shelf is the moleskin/fur shelf material, and side plate is 1/16" plastic.
thanks,david

[deertag]

sorry forgot...
its a  martin x-150 recurve. b50 string.
thanks

[Bud B.]

Do you hae a bow square? How high is the top of your bottom string nock?

[Bud B.]

Also try cock feather in.....

[Tater John]

you should be good with the 1916's. Having a variety of different point weights is helpful when you first start tuning so you don't cut shafts down unnecessarily.   Stick a 90gr on the end and see what happens you might be overly weak, might

[deertag]

at this point the top of the bottom nock is at 3/8" the bottom of the top nock at about 5/8".

i say at this point because I have been up and down the string from even to 1", and none of the movement up or down seems to change it at all.
thanks

[Tater John]

I don't shoot three under, but your nock settings seems low. Work on your form and let the bare shafting go for awhile you can drive yourself crazy with it. Form needs to be super clean with a bare shaft, don't use it to critic your form use it to tune arrows to your bow or bow to the arrows

[deertag]

been reading some more old posts, came across ... perhaps I'm still a tad stiff,  perhaps a tad weak, or perhaps a tab would be better than my 3finger glove?
anyway, i have some 100g fields i'll try tomorow, perhaps I can find a tab somewhere closeby.  there's not much trad supply out here. will try the cock feather in as well.  the up down is what really boggles me, since i've gone up and down.
thanks

[Bud B.]

One thing at a time but don't forget brace either.

Up/down is nock

Left/right is brace and point weight (things that change dynamic spine)

Tackle the up/down first if verticle is good. If you cut the shafts shorter, you'll have to start anew with dynamic spine and point weight/brace adjustments.


Fletching striking riser shelf as it passes can cause false nock highs.

[Stephengiles]

From my understanding, you don't worry so much about those things when bare shafting. Only how the arrows group in relation to one another. To many variables ,release,distance from target, type of target,clearance issues,on and on. I've only been shooting about a year so I'm no expert,it's true if you haven't been shooting all that long your form is still evolving and what works today might not next week. Now if your bent on hunting this year you could just slap on a two dollar stick on rest . It will clean up your arrow flight enough to make tuning easier. Then you can take it off after the seasons over and start again. This was just my experience.

[deertag]

Was able to make some progress today...

Only shot feathered arrows today.
Tried cock feather in - worse.
Tried 100g - worse.
Tried brace increase from 7.5 to 8 - worse.
Tried brace to 7.75 - nearly vertical arrow now!.
then moved on to up/down.
Removed the brass nocks and tied on the whip knot adjustable nocks one above and below 1" high over shelf.  My arrow looked like it was going to shoot into the ground.
At 1" nock my arrow tail hit down about 4".
Moved slowly down at 1/16 increments, at 1/2" I got the tails to only hit about 1-2" down.(the best it would get) As I went lower than 1/2" they seemed to start back hitting toward the 4" down position.

I can see every now and then out of my peripheral vision when the arrow is flying toward the target I see the tail flying high, then when it hits it flings the tail down. At least thats what it 'looks like' its doing, its hard to see very well since its moving pretty fast.

I plan on trimming the outer edge of the shelf rug, it appears that its starting to peel a little. I'm thinking a feather is touching it a little perhaps.

At this point, with these, adjustments, I am shooting 10 yard groups around 2-3", with an occasional flyer one every dozen?  I don't know if this is good or bad, could someone tell me?

Thanks tater and bud for the advice, and everyone else who has helped.  If I am forgetting anything please let me know.

Thanks, david

[Bud B.]

Where in La are you? Sounds like you need a veteran trad shooter nearby to help you out in person. It's hard to daignose thru cyberspace what your complications may be.

Keep at it, but, remember to move only one thing at a time. One adjustment and shoot several arrows before moving anything else.

Post you entire setup in this thread. I was trying to recall your bow weight and draw length from the other.

[Bud B.]

Found it:

 

I have received a martin x-150 as a gift, and have been shooting(relearning) the basics, etc. this year i would like to hunt with it. i bought some arrows one sale last year just to play around with. this year i decided to set things up better. I have a b50 string, the martin is rated 45# at 28". my draw is 27.5" and my draw wt at that length is 41#. i emailed a popular bow supply company and the guy told me to start with aluminum 2117. I looked at eastons chart and could see it was too stiff. I called the company and another guy there said 2016's cut to 29". i bought them cause of the easton chart and his recommendation. they don't fly well at all, even at full length. talked to a local bow shop guy and he said at that wt all the recurve shooters he knows shoot 1916's. I have now a set of them(1916s) on the way. Am I on the right track? I am shooting 125g points bare shaft. the arrows seem to hit left of point of aim mostly, and nock up, even though i have the nock pulled down to 0(even to the shelf).

[deertag]

I'm in eunice, la. I know one guy in lafayette that shoots a black widow, but he's only a target shooter, and greener than me.  there's a bow shop not 2 miles from me but its all compound stuff, the guy there told me i have to shoot 125g broadheads because i won't be able to find anything heavier.  so you can see what i'm up against.  

anyway, it seems to me my shots are pretty decent, but i have nothing to compare them to.  so i'm kinda pressing on. all help is much much appreciated.
thanks

[Tater John]

Go see if the bow shop has field tips heavier than 125. hopefully they do and grab 145,165 or 175 just a couple of each. Chances are their diameter will be larger than your 1916's but don't worry about that, it very well could be 1916 is to stiff. If you put 165-175 gr on the end you will see the arrow swing hard to the right indicating a weak shaft.
I think your fighting it. You did ALOT of adjusting today. There's many variables to figure out, which your trying to do on your own.
i.e. are the nocks to tight on the string, are you torquing the bow or draw hand, are you getting good alignment, deep hook/shallow hook, are you getting your elbow down, etc.?

Have you checked out Terry's alignment clock?

[deertag]

thanks guys,
i found the clock, i'll get one of the kids(older) to critic my form against the clock.

i am hitting where I am aiming at this point, and hitting there... what seems to me (2-3") good groups at 10 yards. its just the tail down thing. with the increase in brace the left/right tail is about hitting center everytime(for now).  I try to shoot the same way everytime, and when I do, lo and behold the arrows usually hit the same spot.  my form is probably much if not most of the problem.  I was torquing with my draw hand a little I noticed today, but am now making a concious effort to keep it straight and its already helping. this afternoon after the tweaks, the arrows seemed to be flying the best they ever have.  there are no field points that are heavier than 125g in south la. according to the bow shop down the road.  i'll be ordering the variety pak monday from 3 riv's. i'll try to post some pics of the arrows in the target tomorow for some reference. i'm taking notes on all this advice so please keep it coming!,thanks!

[deertag]

ordered some differnet wt fields today from 3rivs to try later this week.

But noticed today- started practicing from the backyard treestand and my low tail has disappeared while in the tree.  arrows flying well.

any guesses? i am obviously doing something a little different up there(which is good since I only hunt from trees).
thanks, david