Tuning/form question

[Mike Falkner]

Got something a little different trying to dial in some arrows for my new-to-me 54" Arroyo.  Bow is 52# at my 28" draw, BH at 7 1/2" per RER website.  I tried some 29.5" 35/55's with 50gr inserts, 125 gr pts, and 1.25"x2117 alum footing (Shawn's recipe).  Fletched or bare, these were all over the place.  Tried some 5575's I had  with 50 grain inserts, 125 gr points.  Should be way stiff but the bare shafts are hitting exactly where I aim with just a 1/2" kick up and left - which sounds pretty good.  Problem is the fletched shafts are grouping left about 6".  I suspect it is a grip/release issue since this is a new bow, but any hints where to look?  Or should I keep messing with the 3555's?  Man will this bow zip an arrow...

[onewhohasfun]

Fletching will stiffen your shafts. Try adding some pt. weight. Or leave the 55/75 a little longer.  Cutting is always the last thing I do.

[Mike Falkner]

These are already cut to 29"; can't go any shorter anyway.  I'll start sneaking on some weight and see how she goes.

[Piratkey]

170 to 180 gr points could be good

[Looper]

If you haven't already, add two nock sets, one below and one above the string. Leave a small gap (around 1/16") so your arrow isn't pinched at full draw. Arrows will slide down the string upon release and that will really screw with your tuning. Also make sure your nocks fit correctly.

With short bows, you also need to make sure you maintain a low string arm elbow, especially if you shoot split finger. If it gets even a smidge too high, your index finger will place force on the top of the arrow causing it to rebound off the shelf, again messing with your tuning.  If you shoot 3-under, you don't have that particular problem, but it can through your limb timing off.

[Mike Falkner]

Piratkey, that's where I'm headed.

Looper, I wondered about that.  I'm used a short bow (been shooting a 52" KMAG) but this one has a little different grip.  I am using two nock sets and the nocks seem to fit properly.

[Looper]

So, you are saying that your 5575 bareshaft group is hitting 6 inches to the right of the fletched? At what distance?

That indicates a weak spine, so adding weight will only further move the impact of the bareshafts to the right. Unless those arrows are so stiff that they are hitting the riser. Do you hear a click when you release? I suspect you're way too stiff and getting a false reading. Go back and put a 175-200 grain point in that 3555 and see what it does.

Honestly, figuring out what a problem like this is pretty difficult to do without seeing you shoot. Can you post a video or two of you shooting?

[Mike Falkner]

About 15 yrds - but the bareshafts hit right where I'm aiming.  No click or visible kick to the arrows in flight, and I've tried cock feather in on the fletched shafts.

First step will be heavier points and I'll try to get some video.

[Looper]

But they are hitting the target to the right of the fletched ones, correct?

[Mike Falkner]

yep

[Looper]

Ok, that shows weak, but I suspect something else is going on.  Try some heavier points on both the 3555s and the 5575s and report back.

As a side note, don't worry about which, bare or fletched, is hitting where you look at this time. The fletched shafts are the ones that are actually going where you are aimed. Just focus on getting your bare shafts, field tips, and broadheads all hitting in the same spot.

[JBridegroom22]

I picked up an arroyo last year and had a little trouble tuning arrows to it to. I was shooting beman classic 500s out of it with poor flight. Tried bh up and down point weight up and down getting mixed results. It gets confusing and frusterating. I finally tried a 400 and started getting great arrow flight thru paper. My bow is 58" 51# @ 28. My arrows are cut to 29 3/4 with 125g heads. Not sure how that spine compares to goldtips but I hope that helps.
Josh

[Looper]

GT 5575s are .400 spine.  His setup is pretty close to yours, JB. The only thing is, he's showing really weak. 6" off at 15 yards is a lot. Normally you'd need to take off more than 100 grains of point weight to move an impact point that much. He can't do that with his current 50 gr insert/ 125 gr point combination. He also already has his arrows cut about as short as he can go. Going back to an aluminum insert won't stiffen them up near enough.

The only option, if that 5575 setup is indeed too weak, is to go to a 7595. I can't imagine that bow shoots hard enough for that. Heck, that's what I shoot out of a 65@31" d/r bow. And even then, I need 200 grains up front.

So, I'm guessing there's something else going on. By putting a heavy point on his existing arrows, theoretically, that should move the impact point of his bare shafts further to the right.

[JBridegroom22]

Seems odd. I couldn't imagine it would shoot stiffer than a 400 spine. Possibly turning bh down a little. Never tried it personally but I've heard of people doing it to not go up in spine stiffness. I'll have to check what my bh is but it would be an option if point weight doesn't help. Tuning confuses me. Good luck.
Josh

[Looper]

By "turning broadhead down a little" you mean going down in broadhead weight?

I helped a buddy tune some gold tips to a 57@28" Yellowstone r/d bow. He was only pulling about 27", so around 54#. A "Pro shop", had put him in some 27.5" gt 3555s with 100 grain points and the stock aluminum inserts. He couldn't hit anything with it, and it buzzed really bad. After tuning those arrows in, he ended up with 100 grain inserts and 250 grain points. His bow quieted down considerably and his groups shrank from 2' at 15 yards to around 6".

[Caughtandhobble]

Mike, are you left or right handed?

[JBridegroom22]

Sorry brace height. Not broadhead

[Looper]

Gotcha. Yeah, you can move the impact point by adjusting the brace height. Lowering it will move the impact point to the left, raising it to the right.

I sure hope he's right handed. If not, he's shooting that RER upside down or backwards. Of course that could be his problem.

[Mike Falkner]

Ha yes I'm a righty.  I've got some room to play with brace height and will check that along w pt weight