Bare Shaft Tuning?

[JamesKerr]

When bare shafting do you hold the bow vertical or cant it the way I shoot normally. I am having trouble getting some shafts to tune in and am wondering if this could be a factor.

[Rock 'N Bow]

I shoot the same as how I always shoot. The way it hits the Target is hard to read, but I just make sure they are grouping with my fletched arrows.

[Bjorn]

I hold the bow vertical otherwise the bareshaft shows weak even when it isn't. The feathered shaft I cant as usual.

[Terry Lightle]

What Bjorn said

[Looper]

Yeah, hold it vertical. What you want is to tune the arrow to the bow. If you cant the bow, the spot where your bare shafts hit on the target is different than if you hold the bow straight, by an amount corresponding to the amount of the cant. Essentially, for your adjustments to be correct, you would need to cant the target the same amount as your bow.

Instead of having to account for that, it's easier to just hold the bow vertical.

[JamesKerr]

Okay here's the deal when I hold the bow vertical. I can get a bareshaft to fly straight every once in a while and group with my fletched shafts. When I cant the bow over every shaft no matter what spine it is shows a very stiff reaction, nearly hitting the target sideways with the nock right and grouping nearly a foot from my fletched arrows. What's the deal?

[Looper]

If every shaft is doing it, you are likely torquing the string. Make sure when you cant, you lean with the bow. Don't just twist the bow with your bow hand. Bend at the waist. The back of your string hand should stay parallel to the bow.

The way you grip the bow, grip the string, where you anchor, the length of your draw, etc. should remain the same whether you are canting the bow or shooting it vertical. The only difference should be in the bend in your waist.

So, whether you are shooting like this (slight cant):

 

or this:

 

your upper body should remain the same. I don't have a picture of me bending at the waist, but you get the idea.

[Easykeeper]

I tune the way I shoot.  You just have to take the cant of your bow into consideration when you read your target.

I want my arrows tuned to me and my bow as a system.  If you change how you hold the bow or your stance when you tune what happens when you go back to your normal form?

[Looper]

I didn't say to change how you hold the bow. The point is to have your arrow tuned to your bow, the way you draw it. Your stance doesn't matter. You can shoot sitting, kneeling, crouching, turned around behind you, up in a tree, down from a tree stand, whatever, but if you want to be consistent then your draw length and anchor points need to be the same.

James said his arrows are not flying well when he cants the bow. And, it doesn't matter what spine he uses. Something is causing that, and until he figures out what that something is, he is not going to get good arrow flight.

[AkDan]

Sounds like I'd get a camera out on this one.  If you're torquing the string you'll see it with the camera above and behind you.  That arrow will be bent at full draw.

Its hard to say much about a test medium of every once in awhile it will group with the bow vertical.  Whats it doing the other 70% of the time when they dont group?  

Personally I pay little attention to how much I cant when bareshafting.   I'm close, 5 or so steps from a target.   My bow is typically canted when I stand in my ho hum wanna be a good shot position at 15 or so degrees, at that close of a range that little angle is going to have very little affect.  I've also bareshafted at one point out to 40 yards when I could actually hit the ground without it impaling itself on my arrow.  I shot the same, still slightly canted and wamo.  

if I was having these issues, here's what I do....start bareshafting first before I messed with group testing or anything else!  Figure out if you're weak or stiff and start making the nessicary moves to get close.   It will get you closer to where you need to be faster and THAN start group testing.  Basically it will show you weak or stiff immediatly without having to  shoot a pile of groups.  I consider group testing more of a fine tuning method, and bareshafting the meat and potatoes of getting to that fine tuning point.   I love to shoot, though I'm doing it less and less.  This kind of shooting can become frustrating and leads to other issues like adhd, ocd, and bowaholicism.   Their is a support group for each which will do little to curb the issues lol.  Ok ok, it's been a long week of night shift work without pay, I'm loosing my mind hehe.

All joking aside: It could be you, form problems, it could be tuning, it honestly could be a LOT of things.  Start ruling out knowns before moving on, elimating issues one at a time.

[JamesKerr]

Okay I went out and shot some of my bows today and here's what I found. I can get a bareshaft 500 spine Easton Axis with 175 grains up front to shoot like a bullet out of my Bear Kodiak magnum 50# @ 28" All of my longbows I have the same problem with though no matter if they are 45#-60# all bareshafts act stiff. This is confirmed as I shot some fletched arrows through paper and once again the Bear Kodiak magnum was perfect but all my longbows showed stiff. Using 500 & 400 spine Easton Axis as well as Arrow dynamics traditionals with point weights from 175 grains up to 325 grains.

[Bladepeek]

I would guess your longbows are not cut to center and for them, the arrows are stiff. If you are already up to 175 gr with the 500 spine arrows out of your Kodiak, you may need to go a lot heavier with your longbows. Did you really shoot 325 gr on 500 spine bareshafts with the same stiff results?

[JamesKerr]

No Bladepeek I did not shoot 325 grain tips on the 500 spine shaft the heaviest field tip I have is 250 grains and I tried it on my 45 and 50 # longbows and it was showing stiff. I was scared to try it off of any bow heavier than those though because I think it is underspined just something I am possibly doing with the longbows and I didn't want to end up with a piece of shafting impaled in my hand. I shot a 400 spine full length Axis shaft out of my 55 and 60 pound longbows though with the 250 grain point and a 75 grain brass insert. That's how I had a total of 325 grain point weight on that shaft though and it shows very stiff out of the 55# bows and pretty stiff out of the 60# bow. One of my 55# longbows is cut to center and another 1/16" shy of center with super thin strike plates I made out of pieces of leather I shaved down to about .030" thickness. My 60# widow is cut to center with a calf hair plate on it, so it is about 1/16" from center with the stike plate.

[Bladepeek]

I have to say I'm really puzzled. I have a 47# "D" shaped longbow, cut nearly to center. I draw 29" so the bow is right at 49# at my draw and I can shoot 225 gr field points on 30.5" 500 spine arrows very cleanly. My aggressive r/d longbows take less weight on the same 500 spine 3555s; like 150 to 175 gr.

[SAVIOUR68]

James one thing to try on the long bows, take off the leather rest and use velcro which will help the arrow from bouncing off the riser showing stiff.

[JamesKerr]

Okay I got to shoot some this afternoon and got these results. A full length 400 spine easton Traditional axis shaft with a 75 grain HIT insert and 2018 one inch footing with 225 grains up front bareshafts just about as clean as I have ever seen as far as the arrow flying straight. I have not shot a full length fletched axis shaft yet to see how it flies but something tells me I am just underspined with that shaft. If the 400 was cut to like 29" I could understand but a full length 32" arrow off a 60# center cut longbow with a skinny string. The other arrow that flies good is arrow dynamics traditional with 200-250 grain points and a 78 grain brass insert, However this arrow set up when I shoot a bareshaft while they group together the majority of the time until I pull one the bareshaft always flies nock right showing stiff but is grouping with the fletched arrow. This has all been done from 15 yards.