Thanks john49 I started traditional a few years ago I shot a 3d course a few years back up by glendale not sure if I met you there or not. It was inside a building and I had to can't my bow due to the low ceilings lol. Its been a fun ride shooting traditional and it has been tough too. I am the only traditional hunter in my family and all my friends shoot wheel bows, but everyone respects my choice. I'm always looking for some buddies to shoot with so if u want to get together sometime let me know thanks again brad