Hard to sharpen Grizzlies?

[beachbowhunter]

....I've seen Ray's garage and basement. This could take a while. You could fit my whole little beach bungalow inside his garage!

All the best to Gloria.

[Arrow4Christ]

http://aussiebowhunter.com/images/PDFGRIZZLYBROADHEADS.pdf  

Here's something I found last night to tide us over until Ray is able to get his pics up     I differ slightly from this process but it does work great! Maybe it's just me, but I think that using a stone on the Grizzly (I'm using a set of Arkansas Stones, as opposed to the India Stones in the Article, it works great) makes it slightly sharper as an end result. I use the stone, then leather, then go to my paper wheel mounted on a grinder. Never seen a sharper broadhead     It will shave hair, even facial hair, effortlessly.
Craig

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Glad you've got it worked out Craig. That link you posted is Cher's article on one of the easier ways to sharpen the Grizzly (without power-assist) - after all, she's a GIRL and if SHE can manage a truly sharp edge on a Grizzly ... (Dang, I can see the hackles rising on Killdeer and Pinecone already!)

Now that you're 'over the hump', I think you'll find the Grizzly one of the easiest high-R hardness BH's to sharpen to a TRULY SHARP edge. Through the years, I've used countless different sharpening methods on them, and all methods will produce a beard-shaving edge. Some are just more time-efficient than others.

Ed

[Arrow4Christ]

Ed,
Yessir. I will say I believe this is the sharpest head I've ever produced. I was shooting 4 bladed broadheads before the latest single bevel report came out. Very convincing.
Though I lack the personal experience to say so with any level of certainty, I don't see why a broadhead this sharp would leave no bloodtrail. I would THINK (note again this is not even a theory, only a hypothesis) that any hit would leave at least SOME blood to follow. Heck I cut my finger with one this morning and it bled pretty good  :D  What has your experience been?
With that twisting motion it seemed to me to be the best of both worlds: lots of tissue damage AND great penetration. I'm confident it'll do the job  
God bless,

Craig

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Craig, I've spent a quarter century and over a quarter-million dollars trying to find the most consistently lethal arrow setup possible, under all hit conditions. To that end, I've tested several hundred different broadheads, on an huge array of arrow setups. If I thought there was ANY broadhead out that that gave me a better chance of turning every single hit I made into a clean kill, or that gave me a higher chance of recovering every animal I hit, you can bet that I'd be using it! I've no ax to grind. I'm just passing along whatever I learn as I go about the testing. What BH folks use isn't going to make me richer or poorer. I don't make or sell any broadheads ... or anything else! Heck, I buy all my equipment at retail, just like everyone else!

Ed

[Arrow4Christ]

Dr. Ashby,
Agreed. I am the worst "over-anylizer" I know personally  :D  Just trying to find a happy medium    Hard to decide sometimes, but with my whitetail hunt so close, I'm stuck with the Grizzlies and SilverFlames. Grizzlies will probably be first in the quiver    
For me, arrow and bow choices are a lot easier than the broadhead choice. I'm pretty convinced on the first two, the latter drives me crazy      

Craig

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

" The most effective setup is the best arrow I can get, and the cheapest bow that'll work." - Glenn Newell

Not a bad quote!

Ed

[Littlefeather]

I thought you weren't going to tell me which was the best broadhead. Heck, I don't have to look any more. I suppose I'll use some of these four dozen El Grandes I have here.    

I agree, when you learn to bust the angle and get these babies sharp there's nothing sharper. CK

Hope the wife is doing better Ray! If you need a place to store some hunting stuff I think I have an extra barn that's not in use.  :D   CK

[Littlefeather]

Oh man, I was going to have Glen build me one of his bows. Maybe I should have him build me some arrows instead.  

[JimmyC]

With all due respect, I don't understand why the manufacturer won't sell 'em with the edge already ground???? Seems like buying a car without the tires or a knife without an edge.

I have no problem maintaining an edge, but having to grind and set the thing is something I simply don't want to mess with.  Hopefully with the new found marketability of these great heads (thanks to Dr. Ashby), the manufacturer can justify the added step in their process.  Although, from what I can tell the Abowyer is not a bad option as a "close second" perhaps.(?)

Jim

[Littlefeather]

Jimmy, I haven't seen the set-up for grinding the broadheads but I used to use a grinder similar to what is generally used. Many times you can only grind to a certain degree of bevel before you loose adjustment. I'm pretty sure the grinder angle is maxed out on his particular grinder. I heard tale things are changing though. CK

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Curtis, you'd like Glenn's bows. Cher has one, and it sure shoots good. However, if'n you're a tad worried now, he makes beautiful footed arrows too! Glenn's doing a grip build-up and adding some overlays to a Harry Elburg bow for me right now. I had a bit of albino buffalo horn that going to look real nice, I think.

I think Glenn's considering making another trip to the States sometime next year. I been trying to convince him that he owes it to himself to stop by and see both you and O.L.; so don't fill ALL your spare barn space up storing Ray's excess goodies - just in case!    

Ed

[Littlefeather]

Doc, Cher called yesterday and I missed her again. I did write her a lengthy email.

Glenn called awhile back and said he wouldn't be dropping by this year but possibly next. He's issued an invite to come stay in his "old" house since he's finished the new one there in Oz. It would be an awesome trip. He won't build me a bow till the house in completely complete.  :D  

Say, what gives with the angle question above. Can he get any more out of the grinder. I know you've been by the shop. CK

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Curtis, as I understand it, the grinder is maxed-out, and the 'new angle' - about 26.5 degrees - is as flat as it will go.

Ed

[Arrow4Christ]

   Where ya at Ray? LOL  
I got a question for you "experts". I had a friend present an interesting theory to me today about single bevel broadheads. He said that if the arrow spirals through the animal, it would have to lose momentum and therefore the arrow would look for "the path of least resistance" to follow. So if the arrow was driving straight through to the heart, and was spinning inside the animal, it could, in theory, spiral around the heart and miss it, as it was looking for the path of least resistance. Take, for example a bullet. Bullets will sometimes enter one place and exit somewhere completely different, as they look for the path of least resistance.
I've never heard of such a thing happening with any broadhead. Your thoughts?
Craig

[fireman_3311]

Here's a pic I took in Iowa last winter, after I'd filled my antlerless tag...Magnus 4 blade was still rotating, right along the back edge of a nice fat 6-8 month old doe. 17yds, on the ground, kill zone was right about eye level at the shot! Granted, this doe was not a wide bodied critter, but that arrow was fo sho rotating, while passing thru!

 

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Craig, try to wade through some of the study updates. In each of the multitudinous side-by-side test of identical blade-profile single vs. double-bevel BH's; on identical setups, the single bevel has shown a marked increase in outcome penetration when a bone hit is involved. An arrow does not (can not) do that by 'losing its momentum as it spirals through the animal' more rapidly that its comparison arrow. In fact, every result indicates that the rotating single-bevel BH RETAINS more of its useful, penetration-producing momentum longer than the like-profile double-bevel BH's.

Any broadhead can be glanced off a bone when the angle of impact is wrong, and that can deviate the course of an arrow's penetration. A structural-failure in the arrow system; a bent or broken BH, adaptor, insert or shaft; can cause a change in the course of penetration. An animal's body movements can cause a change in the course of an arrow's penetration. All these will deviate the course of arrow penetration. Other than their course of penetration being deviated by an externally occurring event (force), arrow penetration is linear through an animal - whether the BH is single or double-bevel.

The rotation of the single bevel BH's show a constant rate of rotation as they penetrate a given tissue. They do not seek a 'path of least resistance' during penetration. You can put your mind at rest on that one. After dissecting many hundred single-bevel caused wound-channels, I can ABSOLUTELY assure you that your friend's theory is not something you need to be concerned about. I've never seen any results that even remotely suggest such events.

Ed

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Brad, I'd speculate that collision of your BH's blade with a bone initiated some rotation of your arrow on that particular hit. Close examination of the ribs would, almost certainly, show evidence of the BH skidding a tiny amount, with the blade being torqued either right or left. With single-blade heads, it's very common for them to skid on a rib's curved surface, slide along the rib and enter at the first available intercostal space. During this process, the single-blade BH - with an astounding degree of frequency - tends to "right itself", with the wound through the intercostal space being parallel to the rib's edge. Of course a multi-blade can’t ‘right itself’, but their wound channels show the same effect; a rotational movement of the broadhead is induced as the head slips along and past the rib.
 
On 'all soft tissue hits' double-bevel BH rotation stops at the instant of tissue impact. The wound channel will show no rotation until some outside force causes the double-bevel BH to begin a rotational movement; and the most commonly occurring 'outside force' to do this has been bone-collision. It's fairly common for the wound-channel of double-bevel BH's to show some rotation of the BH immediately following a bone impact. However, the spiral is not one sustained for very long. Once whatever torque force was applied to the arrow during its collision with the bone is expended, the double-bevel BH’s wound channel ceases to show an arrow rotation.

The big difference is that any rotation of a double bevel BH is dependent of the random occurrence of an outside event. A single-bevel's rotation is induced by tissue pressure against the bevel; which results from the arrow's forward force applied to the tissues. It is constant and consistent.

Ed