does tiller matter in recurve bows?

[Rick Moss]

Originally posted by East Coast archer:
Baseball size groups at 50 yards!  I guess Robin Hood is in town.      :eek:    Did you ever get in touch with the bowyer?  Usually they are very helpful.  I don't doubt dirty birds shooting but expecting to get a new traditional bow and shoot like that is kinda like,      

seems like a lot of you on here read, but don't comprehend what you read...I never once said that I expect to shoot like that with a trad bow. I can shoot all day like that with my compounds. I got a nice recurve and expected to have a 'simple' bow and just be fun. so far it has been anything but simple, and that is okay...don't get me wrong, but I guess I jumped in a little quick. I can tune a compound like not many people I know, and didn't expect to have to do the same thing with a recurve. I am also not crazy about the 'feel' of a traditional bow, or the fact that I have to buy a bunch of other stuff...not that I HAVE to, but I would...anyways, it is all meaningless now, because dave just picked up the bow and I am just going to stick with my compound bows. I had fun on here and appreciate all the help and your brotherhood...wish the compound guys were more like you guys are. oh well, I am not a big 'forum guy' because of the bad taste archery talk left in my mouth. anyways, you guys are top notch fellas in my opinion and a great group of people. good luck to you all and take care. I may drop by from time to time, but I am just not a traditional archer, at least not by the gear I choose to use, but you guys all fit the bill when it comes to a good group of people.

[bamboo]

for not being a "forum guy" you sure have the drama down!!!

Maybe you should have started with a Hill style longbow and tried something completely different, like shooting a bow like Howard Hill. Trying to make a recurve take the place of a compound without changing the hunting and shooting philosphy just does not work. This is about adventure and personal challenge, it is not for everyone.  This all kind of reminds me when I started one Canadian canoe trip. A group of guys, all except one had never been in a canoe before, the only boats they had any experience with were Ranger bass boats. They loaded their canoe ten feet from the water climbed in and asked for a push. They were afraid that they were going to get their feet wet.

[East Coast archer]

My apology, a baseball at 50 yards, that's more like it       all that was meant is that you can't really expect that with your first trad bow.  Only having fun with ya and good luck.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Rick Moss:
no quiver. moved the string silencers up and down. got the arrows from dave, he said they are plenty heavy enough...but either of us know the grain weight. moved the BH around. nocks are actually a little looser than I like, but they work....who knows. I will figure it out, or I will hang it on the wall and it will be an $1180 wall decoration.

Here is something to try before you go hanging it on the wall brutha.... Try heeling down a bit on the grip. Typically if the limbs are the same length, and the deepest part of the grip is located dead center of the bow. even to 1/8th positive tiller should work for most of the guys from high wrist to medium pressure on the grip.

For guys that are accustomed to shooting a straight grip, or even a locator grip with more pressure on the heel, a more positive tiller like you have discribed will help with vibration and noise level....

A bow can be balanced to different pressure point locations on the grip. Tiller CAN make a difference in extreme conditions.

Twisting a string or adjusting brace will NOT effect tiller. tiller is only a measurement from the limb fades to the string at brace. nothing is going to change that but a bowyer on a one piece bow....

have you ever noticed how some bows feel different and react different than others? I'm not talking performance. I'm talking how it feels after the shot. You can spend years looking for the perfect bow that is balanced just perfect to match your shooting style, and horse around tuning arrows for it.. and some guys actually find the right set up eventually..... Or.... You can try having something custom built to match your shooting style some time....  Night and day difference bro....Kirk


btw.... is this a TD bow? or a one piece?

The answer to your question is yes, tiller does matter in recurve bows, and longbows, and selfbows! Also, there is nothing wrong with your tiller measurements!

Bisch

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well looks to me like i wasted my breath.... a whole lot of posts came in on this thread before i hit the send button..... oooops!

Yup.... traditional archery can be one of the most humbling things you ever do after coming off being an excellent archer with a compound bow...

 But....Once you are ready to make the commitment, and take the time to learn it well... it can also be one of the most satisfying adventures you've ever taken... Good luck to you and good hunting... Kirk

[Cootling]

I enjoyed the privilege of discussing tiller at great length with none other than Earl Hoyt.  He told me that he had strong feelings about tiller until he tried some experiments with a leading Olympic archer.    He tried positive tiller, negative tiller... and it didn't seem to much matter over a fairly wide range.

More recently, I received a set of limbs that were mismatched.  It just happened that I put them on two risers with different amounts of preload.  The first bow, without much preload, tuned and shot well enough that nothing seemed to be wrong. Then I put them on a the riser with more preload and ... holy crap!  I realized they were like an inch different!  Pretty eye-opening.

I'm not saying tiller doesn't matter, but I am saying that I'd like to do some experimenting before concluding that it is as important as it commonly is thought to be.

[Don Stokes]

Rick, this isn't for everyone. It's not for the guy who wants to pick up a bow without much practice and hunt. It's not for the guy who wants instant gratification. It's for the guy who wants to shoot in a way that is personal, with equipment that is personalized, and didn't come off the shelf ready to hit bullseyes. I don't think it's for you. This is something you must work at, and want to do because it feels good, and expect to devote some time to learning. Good luck with your machine.

[MR BILL SHORTY]

   

I want to hit a baseball ten times out of ten times at 50 yards to. I need someone to recommend a bow that will do that for me, pretty sure that I won't be able to do that for myself.

Very entertaining thread.

[Stumpkiller]

It is a bummer.  With a traditional bow you not only have to learn to shoot; but you have to learn to hunt so you can get within the limited range of a less precise weapon.  Rats.

I had a friend/mentor who could repeatedly put five arrows in a group at 30 yards you could enclose with your thumb and forefinger.  He was amazing (and one of the last NY State competitors to win or place with wood arrows).  He could likely have given you a run at 50 yards.  

I used to shoot for 5¢ a shot kitty with a neighboir with my compound at 50 yards on softball sized balloons.  Nickle a shot and if you missed and the other guy hit you won the kitty.  We'd sometimes get up to a dollar.  I am nowhere near that good with a traditional bow - but I never did kill a deer with a compound for stupid reasons like picking the wrong pin, over shooting when the deer flinched, deer spooking from the noise as I drew, bobbling an arrow trying to use a mnechanical release, etc., etc.

I also didn't like the fact that stump shooting was too hard on aluminum arrows with the compound.  It was no fun in the off season.  

I learned to play to my limits and I now hunt where I can get the deer to within 25 yards.  Very thick cover.  I also practice daily, year round.  Traditional archery is a committment; not something you can dust off for three weeks a year and forget the rest of the time.

[Sixby]

I can hit a golfball at 200 yards with my 25.06.
That is not going to make me stop shooting my bow and hunting with it.

God bless, Steve

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally posted by Sixby:
I can hit a golfball at 200 yards with my 25.06.
That is not going to make me stop shooting my bow and hunting with it.

God bless, Steve

Well said.

[ishoot4thrills]

Originally posted by bamboo:
.......you can NOT adjust tiller or pull one limb or the other more by twisting the string on different ends-period

I tend to agree with the above statement.....

Unless I missed it, you never said whether or not you are shooting 3-under or split finger.

I shoot 3-under and I have my nocking point set 7/8" higher than 90 degrees perpendicular.

[katman]

Kirk made a good point that you have to learn how the bow likes to be shot if the grip was not customized for your shooting style, play with pressure points.

Also good was up nock point to 3/4" and check bare shaft tune, by the way how are you tuning?

My thoughts are nock point low or tune, arrow may be to stiff.

I have played a lot with different tiller with ILF bows and nock point adjustment can compensate for most.

While trad may not be for you I encourage you to return to it once you have settled down a bit. Your frustration was very evident from an earlier post. Wish you good fortune with your endeavor.

I could not take this thread very serious, considering the question in the first post about string twisting. Then the "f this" and the claim that his best buddy could out shoot, obviously the best shot in the world, and out tune anybody. If his buddy was that good, he would not have needed to ask the question. This game is not for the weak willed that want it all to come easy.

[East Coast archer]

Pavan