3 under questions

[Jake Scott]

Okay gents,
I once again find myself in need of your expertise.  The other day I was reading an article by Gene Wensel titled "No Shame in Aiming."  The gist of the article was that far too many folks confuse barebow shooting with instinctive shooting.  He went on to say that many people sacrifice accuracy and limit themselves in the field because they're hung up on shooting instinctively for any number of reasons.  He also pointed out that he shoots three under because it places the arrow closer to his eye at anchor.  

So, that being said, I have been shooting split fingers and "instinctive" since I started shooting.  I place quotes around the word instinctive not to make light, but to emphasize that Mr. Wensel provoked thoughts that maybe I was just flinging arrows and hoping with crossed fingers that proper form and repetition would send my arrows to my mark.  Don't get me wrong, I have been achieving what I consider to be adequate accuracy.  Roughly 8 inch groups out to 25 yards and better closer up.  Having said that, continuous improvement is the essence of what we do.  I switched to 3 under, mostly out of curiosity for something I had never tried.  After the initial floundering that accompanies change in form, I discovered a fairly remarkable increase in accuracy.  My bow, a foley recurve, is slightly more noisy, but nothing that can't be fixed with a little tinkering.  I am now shooting far better groups out to 25.  

I have read all manner of things on this site regarding tiller, which I freely admit I have had a hard time wrapping my head around.  I have several questions.  Will shooting my bow three under if it is not tillered that way harm it in any way??  Those who shoot three under, why do you do so?  Those that don't, why not?  Thanks in advance guys, look forward to hearing your responses!

Jake

[Manitoba Stickflinger]

I too switched to 3 under after 30 years of shooting. Not only did my accuracy improve, but not having the nock between my fingers was much more comfortable. Shooting 3 under (and anchoring with my middle finger) allowes me to use my cock feather as a second anchor against the tip of my nose....again likely increasing accuracy.

Shooting 3 under will not harm the bow. I've heard different opinions on tiller, and 2 very respectable bowyers have told me that their testing between tillered for 3 under or split has little to no difference in results.

[ChuckC]

Jake.  Glad to see you are happy with your shooting.

One thing that we have to keep in the back of our heads as we journey thru any pass time, is what we want and expect out of it.

8" groups at 25 yards is pretty good, especially if you only shoot out to 15 to 20.  We humans have a way of wanting more, wanting different, wanting better.  We are hard wired for it.  Can't help it.

This is where those choices come in, and I am not intoning that laziness is involved at any level, just choices.

For some, a certain thing is what they want, what they feel.  For some, getting better is imperative, and that is great, but realize, that better and easier go hand in hand.  We have invented more and more ways to get better.  We make choices.  Where do you / I draw the line ?

Longbow or recurve or compound or crossbow ? No "sight", point on, string walking / face walking, front sight, front and rear sight, level, release, stabilizer, telescopic sight, using a range finder.  

Muzzle loader with flint lock, with percussion caps, with open sights, with telescopic sights, with in-line technology, with electronic ignition, with powder pellets and larger percussion caps.
 
Modern Rifle with open sights, rifle with telescopic sights?  Lazer guided ?  Rifle with no human interface, just guided by computer ?

All of these are improvements and make you a better shot, and with each of these we make our own choice.  Go there.. or not. Why did we chose that ?

Gene said "there is no shame in aiming".  In reality, we always aim, no matter which style of aiming you choose. Some use simple systems, some use elaborate systems, but we all aim.

I think all of these choices are deeply personal and should be made, not because of what everybody else thinks, but because of what you / I think. If you choose because of what the others say, you will never be truly happy with your choice.

I shot both ways in my life.  I currently shoot split finger and "instinctive" (kinda). I do it that way because it feels best to me.

I also don't think that it matters to the equipment.  (in going with this,  why not shoot two under for less tiller issue and for ergonomics ?)

ChuckC

[kennym]

why not shoot two under for less tiller issue and for ergonomics ?

I like yer thinkin Chuck!!

[Todd Cook]

1: no, I don't think it will harm the bow.
2: I shoot 3 under because Im pretty fond of venison:)

[BWallace10327]

I always shot split finger until just a few months ago. I switched for 2 reasons:
1. I wanted to try gap shooting, and thought it would be easier to learn with 3 under hold on the string.  That didn't work out, but I am point shooting 3 under just at well as I ever did split finger.
2. I have always wanted a Bear Supermag.  When I finally got one I had to choose to sell it or shoot 3 under.  The string pinch was really bad.  I switched my grip and love shooting the little bow.

[threeunder]

I shot split when I started with a longbow in 2006.  3 years ago, after reading a similar post here, I tried 3 under.  I'm much more consistent.  The consistency is what sold me.
I do not believe the average shooter will notice any difference in the two tillers.
I tried split a couple of days last summer.  It was a disaster...lol

[Jim Wright]

Concerning the increased noise from 3 under you will probably be well served by raising your nock height at least an eighth of an inch and fine tune from there.

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by kennym:
why not shoot two under for less tiller issue and for ergonomics ?

I like yer thinkin Chuck!!

I am always amazed by how people will discover, after many years of shooting split, that there is another choice and yet not realise there are a couple of other "other choices"...I shoot 3 finger split, two finger split, three fingers under and two fingers under and they all have their good points...the way I see it the less contact with the string the fewer things to go wrong

DDave

[Jake Scott]

Thanks guys!!!  I knew there would be some great responses.  ChuckC, your response makes a lot of sense.  It seems to be a matter of style and personal choice above all else.  The constant search for improvement  and bettering oneself is perhaps my favorite facet of traditional archery, and the points you gentlemen make only solidifies this fact.

Thanks once again,

Jake

[Mr. fingers]

Just my experience,
You may need to move too or stiffen up your arrow when switching. If you are one who paper tunes you will see what I mean.
I just got a new bow and my bower told me how its tillered does not make a difference. When shooting either style.

[Michael Arnette]

I shoot 3 under after several years of split. Made a big difference for me! I also think that having the bow properly tillered makes a big difference in proper tuning and noise...depending on the bow.

[Paul_R]

I can think of a lot more productive things to worry about than whether a bow is tillered for three under or split. I've shot both ways and finally settled on two under. Having the 'ol ring finger on the string makes for a noisy sloppy release no matter how I shoot and I've never had a bow that couldn't be tuned for either no matter how it was tillered.

[NBK]

Started shooting split because that was how dad taught me.  Switched to 3 under for several years and noticed more consistency/tighter groups.  I now shoot split again simply because it feels more natural when I'm in hunting situations and I LOVE the soft, quiet "thump" of a longbow shot split finger!

[macbow]

I guess after 50 years of shooting split it is what feels right.
I just can't stand the feeling of not having control of the arrow with I 3 under. Afraid of the nocked arrow coming off the string.

Especially with a heavy bowfishing arrow it pulls off the string on a quick draw.

[Paul_R]

Originally posted by macbow:


Especially with a heavy bowfishing arrow it pulls off the string on a quick draw.

I've noticed that myself.  I fit my fishing arrow nocks tighter to deal with that annoying tendency.

[jonsimoneau]

It's worth experimenting with. Some people will probably get a better release with three under and some will probably get a better release with split finger. One thing about 3 under is that it lessens your "gap".  This can be good for shots under 20 yards but it might make long shots more difficult.

[Brianlocal3]

I shoot 3U mostly, and my bows aren't specifically tillers for it. They seem quiet enough.

Bowfishing I shoot split for the above mentioned reasons

[habujohn]

Went to three under in the early 70's to help my ringer finger I busted up.  I noticed right away that it improved my shooting from 25 yards in.  Over 30 is more difficult with my high anchor.  No issue with tiller.