Is less sometimes more?

[KYFOXSTICK]

I have been shooting traditional equipment for about a year and a half now with fairly good success in the field. With this success I have been recently reading and watching a lot of videos on proper form and different techniques. I was Quick to realize that my form is not perfect so i began to experiment on the blank bale. With mixed results I began to notice I was losing consistency...and in imo the most important shot of the day (the first one)  Long story short...last night I just went out and shot without thinking at all about form. I would just pic a spot and shoot. I was hitting everything I looked at within what I consider to be my effective hunting range.

So...my question to you is...do you try and perfect every aspect of your shot or are you one to believe "don't fix it if it ain't broken".

I am aware that everyone can always improve...Just not sure the best method for doing so.

Thx in advance

[jjwaldman]

You might want to post a video or question in the shooters form forum.  Moebow is a great help in this area.

[Caughtandhobble]

I try to perfect every aspect of my form... It's like shoveling snow in a blizzard but I try  

[Charlie Lamb]

Practicing form and shooting for accuracy aren't always the same thing. We practice one to achieve the other.

As for me, I consider every shot not at game to be a form shot... paying attention to all the details.

Every shot at game is taken without consideration for form. It is what you've practiced for so it's time to let it happen and not worry about the things you've practiced.

[gringol]

Good form is meant to help make you consistent.  If you are already consistent there may not be a point in starting over with your form.  I'm sure I'll get crucified for saying it, but as a group we over think just about everything we do.  The goal is repeatable accuracy.  Period.  If you are already there, just go shooting.

Now, just for the record, I don't think it's a bad idea to work on form, but let's be honest here, how helpful is the internet really going to be for that?  A shooting coach or clinic would be much better, imo.

[J. Holden]

I learned a saying in the military.  "Train like you fight and fight like you train".  Basically if you "train", or practice, the same over and over again then when it comes time to "fight" it's all automatic and instinct/muscle memory takes over.

I take a little bit of this advice or that advice and apply it to my shooting.  If it works I keep it.  I try to do the same thing every time.

That way when it comes time to shoot I focus on the spot and pull back.

Just my thoughts...

-Jeremy  

Without getting into the different qualifications as to what qualifies as good form, nothing trumps clear concentration.  At some point we all need to see what we can hit.  I think one of Hill's not so secret tricks was that he was always pushing himself to find what he could pull off.  A fast runner does not constantly practice or think about slowly putting one foot in front of the other.  A musician at some point needs stop critically thinking about technique and push for scale speed and dynamics.  Eventually, we must know intuitively, what we must do to get an accurate arrow into a nervous game animal, and then just do it.

[jrbows]

Personally less is more for me, less thinking about picking apart everything I'm doing means more concentration on the target, results are hard to argue with, if you don't have what is accepted as perfect form but are accurate does it matter? Look up a picture of Ishi and check out his form, if you sacrifice accuracy for form are you really gaining anything?

[Sixby]

I used to teach archery and one thing I hated most was trying to work with someone that had developed really poor shooting habits over the years but was unhappy with the results. Its really hard to break old ingrained habits. You literally have to retrain the mind to the point that the correct form is automatic. At that point you don't have to concentrate on good form.
The only way I have found that works is repetition. Just shooting correctly over and over .
My best results were working close to the target and now worrying at all about groups or where you hit , as long as you hit the target but working on one aspect of form until you get it down without having to think about it. That can take days because if you practice only a short time at this you will revert to the old pattern. It has to be replaced.

God bless, Steve

[njloco]

Sixby nailed it, if you think your going to practice form ( blank bale shooting ) for a relatively short time and expect results, you had better have really good form to begin with. You should practice your form until you don't have to consciously think about it at all, that is when you'll see results on the target, you'll know when that happens because you should be able to pick up any bow and pretty much shoot it just as good or real close to the bow you shoot everyday.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It's like anything you would like to improve. Focus on one thing at a time you want to change in your form, and do it again and again until it "Becomes" instinctive... When you are working the bale there is no target...... When you have a target, you don't want to be thinking about form and blow your concentration... Just do it.... works for me.

[McDave]

What you are experiencing is part of a fairly normal progression in learning any hand/eye coordination sport.

When you learn something new, you first have to learn it cognitively (with words and directions). Words and directions can only take you so far, because there is no way words and directions can control all the hundreds (thousands?) of micro-movements needed to successfully accomplish a complicated hand/eye coordination movement.

So at some point, when the words and directions have taken you as far as they can go, you switch over to experiential learning.  You have memorized the gross movements by using words and directions, and you don't need that anymore. In fact, words and directions will prevent you from learning with your body, which is the experiential phase.  So you shoot and shoot and shoot, maybe hundreds or thousands of arrows, re-learning what it feels like to use the new method without having to think about it in words anymore.

Then at some point, something good happens.  You're shooting hundreds of arrows using your new method and hopefully enjoying the experience. You try something a little different, maybe subtle and hard to describe in words, maybe without really meaning to try anything different, and it works better than what you were doing before.  You had an inspiration.  That's why they call this phase inspirational learning.  From this point, your learning proceeds like stair steps:  flat periods where you don't improve, or maybe even get a little worse, followed by inspirational jumps.

Maybe at some point you hear of a completely new method you want to try, and start over again at the cognitive level, and then repeat the whole process all over again.  Cognitive, experiential, and inspirational; that's how we learn hand/eye coordination sports.

[KYFOXSTICK]

Thx for all the replies...They are very much appreciated. I agree with everything that has been said about the importance of solid consistent form.  However, I have to agree with the fact that concentration is by far the most important aspect for me to shoot well. The reason I say that is the fact that if I'm feeling good and hitting well...I can basically shoot from a variety of positions and a variety of bows and still hit fairly well.

When my concentration is keen I nearly always make good shots within my comfort zone of less than 20 yards. When my concentration seems to fade it seems that no matter what I do with my form I can't be consistent.

I am no expert and don't claim to be...Just revealing what has worked for me thus far. I am open minded and my goal is to continuously improve with traditional gear. Thx again for the replies.

I did not read all the responses above......but.......anytime you try to make any significant equipment or form changes, there will usually be a drop in accuracy until you get used to the new equipment or get consistent with the new form.

When changing form, the goal is that the loss of accuracy is short lived as the better form is learned, and you end up at a higher lever of accuracy once the better form is mastered.

Edit: I went back up and read some and I totally agree with what Charlie said. We practice every day so that when we are hunting we do not have to think about it.

Bisch

[monkeyball]

I think if I had the choice I would rather just have the shot happen than have time to think about it.I work best that way,instincts take over and it just all falls in place. That being said, I do practice form thru the off winter months,mostly just making sure I am getting back to full draw and following thru.

 This doe came barreling past me on the second drive of the morning a few years ago. It was the late season and it was cold. Passing by me at 4.5 yards I barely had time to get an arrow out of my Catquiver. The arrow snapped off at impact but the Zwickey had found her heart and I watched her topple less than 60 yards away.

 Not much time to think on that one.

The one thing I have noticed with the all natural shooters, is that over time the draw shortens they find they need to goose neck to have any kind of an anchor.  Even Hill spent his time working on one piece of his form at a time, but once he got through that, the serious fun began. The real fun starts when that form is grooved in.  If all I did was practice my form, I think it would get stale and I would get distracted.

[SKITCH]

Hey Brian,  pick up a copy of "Zen in the Art of Archery" by Eugen Herrigel.  It's a good quick read and deals with the idea of getting form so automatic that the mind is no longer part of the shot.  Holds true for many things but this is about archery.  Should be able to find it at your local bookstore or online.

[Tradcat]

AMEN to what Charlie said !

[KYFOXSTICK]

Thx for the insight...I will get me a copy and read thru it. I like the ideal of removing my poor mind from the shot...lol.