Rock Climbing Harness? BOUGHT A BLACK DIAMOND

[TxAg]

Originally posted by Kevin Dill:
Bringing this back up...

I recently bought a Petzl Pandion harness for some of my tree-stand situations. Specifically, it's going to Alaska with me for use in boreal spruce while moose hunting. I needed something light and quick. I did a lot of homework and found that I didn't want a 'normal' rock harness which has padded belt and extra gear loops. If you think about it, most rock-climbing is done in warm weather and minimal clothing. I needed a low-profile unit which would be easy to fit and wear over the top of somewhat heavier hunting clothes. I found that a harness designed for alpine skiing and mountaineering was better suited for me. They are designed without padding and are much easier to walk in, carry and put on.

I went to a couple REI stores and tried 6 harnesses. None of them was right for what I wanted, but the Couloir by BD was close. The buckle was a bummer, so I ordered a Petzl Pandion. I also bought 30' of Blue Water dynamic rope (30%+ stretch/elongation in a fall) and a small, strong screwgate carabiner. I think I'm set.

     

My brother just did something very similar excep he bought the Petzl Adjama.  I think i'm going this route also

[RedShaft]

Wl tell us how you rig it all up?

[RedShaft]

Anyone?

[Kevin Dill]

I'm not into complexity. I tie a length of dynamic rope into the tree and add a carabiner to the end. Once up in the tree I snap the biner to the front tie-in loop on the harness. I either drape the rope over my shoulder or under my armpit. The front tie-in causes no issues and I like it. When climbing or hanging a stand, I can use the front tie-in loop along with a loop of rope around the tree. The harness allows me to sit in it when my legs need a rest. I looked at the Adjama harness but didn't care for the extra padding and hardware.

[Kevin Dill]

The nice things about a rock harness for me:

Light physical weight. Easy to put on. No hassles with adapting to heavy jacket or coat. Very inexpensive comparatively. Ability to hang/sit in the harness as needed. Front tie-in positions you toward tree in a fall-arrest. Easy to rig as climbing harness with lineman's rope.

I should add that I don't care much for pre-rigged ropes, prussic loops and heavy steel carabiners. I much prefer a length of good dynamic rope and a high quality alloy carabiner from a climbing company. I recently used my rig in the backcountry of Alaska and it served me perfectly.

[slowbowjoe]

Lots of knowledgeable info here, my friends. I used to be an avid rock climber, also a (licensed) climbing guide in the Adirondacks.

I don't use a tree stand myself. if I did: yes, I'd use a rock climbing harness. I'd anchor to my full strength haul loop in back, with no slack while sitting. If rigged securely, you simply can't "fall" below the stand. Backing up the anchor with a second, both equal tension, is safer still, and standard practice for climbers.

Climbing rope is "dynamic" - as McDave has pointed out, it has some stretch to it, intentionally. The longer the length of rope to your anchor, the bore stretch you'll get. Typical elongation, is about 6-8%, I believe (it's been a while). "Static" rope has little to no give. Webbing or cordelette have no stretch. I might use either climbing rope or webbing/cordelette to anchor.

One note about anchoring in front, when you're facing away from the tree: Look at that video - the guy gets spun around to face the tree. He catches himself with foot and hand. That's without a bow in hand, in shorts, sneakers, t-shirt, in an anticipated fall. What if it were cold, lots of clothes, boots on, holding a bow with a broad head nocked on the string?

One of the scariest moments during my climbing days (my early days, I'd like to note!):
I was sitting on a ledge, anchor line running from my front loop to a solidly placed anchor behind me, belaying my partner below up a pitch.
He fell (this places the weight of the fall on your tie in point). The fall yanked me, spun me around, and smacked my face on solid rock. I held the belay, and managed to get things back together, with the help of a third partner on the ledge with me.
If I had hit harder, and/or lose the grip of my belay hand, my partner could have died.
Something to consider about your tie-in and anchor system.

Don't want to be too heavy here my friends, and certainly not preaching, just adding some real world experience to the thread.

For me, it's no slack in the system and force of fall in line with the anchor.

Be careful out there!

[greg fields]

With this harness, could i incoorporate it into my live wire self lowering system...  seems alot easier than my current harness...

[Kevin Dill]

Greg,

Not sure, but I assume you could make it work.

This entire thread makes me a bit crazy. I remember the early 1980s when only a few of us used a 'figure 8' safety belt to connect ourselves to a tree. No harness...no ropes...nothing else. I think 8 out of 10 guys used no safety equipment. Static lines and self-lowering systems didn't exist. Despite this, it wasn't like hundreds of hunters were dropping like acorns and breaking their necks each weekend. After nearly 40 years of treestand hunting, I've never exited my stand in an unplanned fashion even once. I simply adhere to good safety principles and keep my gear in good shape. I purposely decline the use of a static safety line or lowering system or self-rescue setup. Maybe I could slightly lower my risk, but I know it can never be eliminated totally by any equipment. I have been known to drive without a seatbelt, and my hilltop house has no lightning rod either. You can still die with airbags deployed. What I'm suggesting is that guys should know their equipment and the odds they'll fall. Those odds are very low, and become extremely low based on your safety practices. Adding more gear might help, but then again it might be more of a mental thing than a real-world benefit. BE SAFE.

[TxAg]

Originally posted by RedShaft:
Wl tell us how you rig it all up?

Here are a couple pics from the backyard. I tried it this weekend and it was easy and comfy.  I don't have a pic of the harness, but it looks like the one above. I bought the ropes and caribiners from an outdoor store. If I recall, the red is a 10mm rope and the blue is 7mm.

The other thing to note is that I shortened the blue rope to about 1/3 of that length.  It is tied to the red rope using a Schwabisch knot....that means it will bite into the rope preventing a fall, but I can also slide it up and down the rope (much like a Prusik) PLUS I can descend with that knot in an emergency.  

Another thing to note is that I hunt from ladder stands. I have 3 or 4 on one property and 6 on another. This system allows me to attach to each tree fast and easy. I position the rope so that I'll only "fall" about 1' at most. Using the rock harness I should be facing the tree and able to climb back up or descend down.  

The one flaw is that I am not tied off while climbing the ladder into the stand. These are all 15' ladders. I keep a close eye on all the ratchet straps, etc. Not perfect I know.

I'm open to ideas if anyone has suggestions.


       

     

[Talondale]

I've used a climbing harness for years and find I'm starting to migrate the other direction now that there are some serious fall restraint systems being built for hunting.  In the beginning I trusted the climbing harness over cheap strap harness, or even worse - loop belt.  I used a static rope tied into a loop that I would wrap around the tree and then feed one end through the loop and clip into my biner.  I would slide the rope up to be tight when I sat down. I even would sometimes use the harness as a sling stand sometimes where a regular hangon stand wouldn't work and successfully shot deer from it.

What has me second guessing this setup is my thoughts of what would happen in a fall. Slowbowjoe's story alludes to some of my thoughts.  A lot of rock climbing falls are you facing the rock and falling straight down.  It would seem a lot of tree stand falls are with you facing away from the tree.  What damage will be done being whipped around?  What if the rope is under one arm?  What about falling asleep and out of the stand?  What about a fall where your center of gravity is perpendicular to the tree, would you get crack-back?