Older bows and fast flight string...

[green valley gobbler]

I was wondering if anyone uses a fast flight string on say an older bow, particularly a Wing recurve that is not fit for fast flight strings.  I've read that most older model bows are not built to handle fast flight but was wondering if anyone has shot  them on older bows.  I realize heavier bows would be advised against it but what about light weight bows, say 35 to 45lbs.  Thanks in advance!

[Bud B.]

Pad the loops if you do.

Me? I won't risk it.

[joe skipp]

Don't care what anyone thinks...NO, padded or not. I agree with Bud...why risk it.

[ncheels]

Agree with Bud and Joe.  Why risk a little more speed when you could damage a bow?

[Kris]

I've never had a bow break do to a low stretch string, nor have I known anyone personally that has.  

There ARE lots of anecdotal stories though, of people that seem to know people that have?  Not saying it can't or doesn't happen.  Anything CAN happen...  

There is a certain protocol you can follow to help alleviate this.  You should ask yourself if the gain is worth the risk?  How valuable is the bow to you?

I make my own strings and pad the loops...I shoot heavier than average arrows and have never dry-fired a bow.  I notice significant shooting improvements with a low stretch string.

I really like them.  It has to be your call though.

Kris

[Igor]

I shoot 16 strand D-10 on all my bows including selfies and haven't had any issues....but that is a decision you have to make yourself...


><>>
Glenn

[oldbohntr]

I use ultra cam and 450+ strings on Wings from the 60s....also Bears, Black Widows, Drakes, Howatts, and others. Having shot at least 10,000 shots with such strings and old bows and never having an incident, I am convinced that the right string construction, the right bow tip construction, and a heavy enough arrow are all that is necessary. And, by the way, the draw weight of the bow has nothing to do with it. True, a 60# plus classic recurve bow may be more likely to blow up than a 40# version of the same, but I think that risk is due to other factors than string material.

Beginning back in the early 90s, I ask many bowyers what they did to "make a bow for FF"....that was the big phrase back then. I still ask that question regularly and it is amazing how often I get a totally different answer!!  20 years later, there are still more answers, but the only answer I agree with is that the tips need a strong material(glass,phenolic, or some micartas)and the tips and nocks should be shaped to spread the impact of string recovery.  

I'm tired of the claim that where there's smoke there must be fire.  Sometimes someone is just blowing it all around!  I have seen only one bow that was damaged by low-stretch material: a guy put such a string on a Howatt Hi-Speed which didn't have any tip overlays on the back.  The string loops were not padded, and-lo and behold!-the string darn well did crack the back limb lam.  I pad my loops on every low-stretch string I make, regardless of what bow it is intended for.

As others have said in this thread and many others: it is your choice.  Well, yes, but others are advising that it is not worth the risk!  What risk, exactly?  I've been "living on the edge" regarding this string material question for 5 or 6 years now with some of the most respected classic bows in recent history.  Hey fellows, I've still got them all and still enjoy shooting them.  

But, they'll claim the risk is not worth a few fps.....once again, not based on fact.  Admittedly, the speed difference is negligible(but it IS there).   But,so many bows are so much nicer to shoot.  Sound, vibration, shock - when reduced- are all stealing less energy that should go to your arrow.  Knowing what I know now, I'd use these strings if they didn't contribute ANY extra speed to the arrow.

Once again, this is just my opinion.  You should form your own.
Regards,

[The Whittler]

I wonder when an old bow with dracon string breaks, be it delam., tips shearing off or anything. What do they blame it on.

When a bow is 20, 30, 40 years or more old I believe something is just waiting to happen. If a bows going to break then there is not much you can do to stop it.

I find with FF my bows shoot/feel better. It's not about speed it's how the bow feels when the bow is shot. So I guess you know how I feel about FF strings.

[Jim Picarelli]

I shoot FF strings with padded loops on a few of my "non FF" bows with no problems. I have a Jerry Hill Elite PLus that just literally blasted the hell out of my elbow. Tried different strand count B 50 strings, different weight arrows...nothing settled the bow. Made up a 12 strand D 97 with dacron padded loops to 20...it's one of the best shooting bows I have now. It's actually a pleasure to shoot now...and I do shoot it alot

[halfseminole]

Page 127 of Adam Karpowicz's book on Ottoman Turkish bows details his misadventures with trying fast flight on multiple new composite bows.  Generally speaking, it cut the tips off the bows.  There were some horn delaminations as well.

[Paul_R]

Originally posted by The Whittler:
I wonder when an old bow with dracon string breaks, be it delam., tips shearing off or anything. What do they blame it on.

When a bow is 20, 30, 40 years or more old I believe something is just waiting to happen. If a bows going to break then there is not much you can do to stop it.

I find with FF my bows shoot/feel better. It's not about speed it's how the bow feels when the bow is shot. So I guess you know how I feel about FF strings.

^^^ This!

I run SBD's on everything FWIW

[Pointer]

I've done it for years. Sometimes I add phenolic overlays to the tips and sometimes I just pad the loops with 8 strands of Dacron. So far so good

[black velvet]

Fast flite with padded loops works on all my older bows. Haven't had any problems yet. And as was said before bows shooting Dacron have been blowing up and delaminating for many years before fast flite.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by oldbohntr:
I use ultra cam and 450+ strings on Wings from the 60s....also Bears, Black Widows, Drakes, Howatts, and others. Having shot at least 10,000 shots with such strings and old bows and never having an incident, I am convinced that the right string construction, the right bow tip construction, and a heavy enough arrow are all that is necessary. And, by the way, the draw weight of the bow has nothing to do with it. True, a 60# plus classic recurve bow may be more likely to blow up than a 40# version of the same, but I think that risk is due to other factors than string material.

Beginning back in the early 90s, I ask many bowyers what they did to "make a bow for FF"....that was the big phrase back then. I still ask that question regularly and it is amazing how often I get a totally different answer!!  20 years later, there are still more answers, but the only answer I agree with is that the tips need a strong material(glass,phenolic, or some micartas)and the tips and nocks should be shaped to spread the impact of string recovery.  

I'm tired of the claim that where there's smoke there must be fire.  Sometimes someone is just blowing it all around!  I have seen only one bow that was damaged by low-stretch material: a guy put such a string on a Howatt Hi-Speed which didn't have any tip overlays on the back.  The string loops were not padded, and-lo and behold!-the string darn well did crack the back limb lam.  I pad my loops on every low-stretch string I make, regardless of what bow it is intended for.

As others have said in this thread and many others: it is your choice.  Well, yes, but others are advising that it is not worth the risk!  What risk, exactly?  I've been "living on the edge" regarding this string material question for 5 or 6 years now with some of the most respected classic bows in recent history.  Hey fellows, I've still got them all and still enjoy shooting them.  

But, they'll claim the risk is not worth a few fps.....once again, not based on fact.  Admittedly, the speed difference is negligible(but it IS there).   But,so many bows are so much nicer to shoot.  Sound, vibration, shock - when reduced- are all stealing less energy that should go to your arrow.  Knowing what I know now, I'd use these strings if they didn't contribute ANY extra speed to the arrow.

Once again, this is just my opinion.  You should form your own.
Regards,

As a bowyer i will endorse this statement completely. If the bow has decent tip overlays made from hard wood, fiberglass or phenolic and the loops are padded on your string... you aren't going to have a failure due to non stretch string material on an older bow....

[oldbohntr]

Thank you, Kirk.  Hearing that from you means a lot.

[halfseminole]

Yeah, I think the bows failing that Karpowicz talks about are due to the vastly different methods of construction between vintage American bows and new Asian style recurves.  I can't see how the American bows would have issues excepting cut through nocks.  Our nocks are very, very different and it is that difference that causes the issue.

However, next to none of you shoot bows like mine.  As such, I'm thinking you would be fine with fast flight, padded or otherwise.  It's locked off to me with traditional composites, though I'm sure my new Kassai will enjoy them.