Bear self defense

[ChuckC]

I couldn't tell if he was jogging or biking,  either way, nice of him to yell and warn the others that are coming up behind him, after he riled up that bear. . . . .

ChuckC

[dragonheart]

Lord knows I am going to be the slowest, so I will carry the spray and a handgun!

[killinstuff]

Hey Jeff can you find and post the Easton Bowhunting Grizzly charge? They are floating a river and come up on 3 cubs, the sow blows out of the bush from 15 feet just ready to destroy them. In a split second the guy shoots (misses) but turns the bear.

[dragonheart]

Originally posted by killinstuff:
Hey Jeff can you find and post the Easton Bowhunting Grizzly charge? They are floating a river and come up on 3 cubs, the sow blows out of the bush from 15 feet just ready to destroy them. In a split second the guy shoots (misses) but turns the bear.

Page 1 of this very thread.    :p

[killinstuff]

How did I miss that one? I have no clue.

[Tajue17]

...

[JimB]

Here is one where a Montana warden saved himself with his .357 service revolver.
 http://www.wideopenspaces.com/bear-attacks-ranger-pics/
Here is another one,not too far from here,where a bowhunter stopped a charging grizzly with 5 shots from a .357.Neither hunter got a scratch.
 http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/region/article_9ad27662-d9ad-11e0-ab85-001cc4c03286.html

It wouldn't be my choice for defense but these guys made it work.

[Kevin Dill]

I once had a guy get downright mad at me for liking my sidearm. He puffed up and said,

"Spray will stop anything that walks. Give me a can of spray and $100 from each of us. If you can get the money away from me, it's yours...but you'll lose".

Me: "Okay, I accept. You get in your tent and go to sleep. I'll turn the lights off".

As I recall, we never agreed on a winner. But ultimately, the winner is anyone who ends an encounter with no injuries, other than frayed nerves.

[jhg]

Originally posted by Kevin Dill:
... But ultimately, the winner is anyone who ends an encounter with no injuries, other than frayed nerves.

Except its been proven your odds of winning are better with spray.

 And that fact has nothing to do with liking guns or not, or if they can sometimes be effective or not. I think its become another "us/them" debate at this point.

Joshua

[JimB]

There was another incident here,in a facility that trains animals for the movies and a trainer was being mauled,another trainer pepper sprayed the bear but it wouldn't stop.They had to get a rifle and shoot the bear to recover the body.

In the Smith/Herrero study linked to earlier in this thread,where they strongly recommend bear spray,they said the spray "stopped undesirable behavior" 90% of the time.They only studied 72 incidents where spray was used in "encounters" with bears.They didn't say "attacks".18% of those bears that were thwarted,had to be sprayed multiple times.The first time didn't stop them.

Conversely,they went all the way back to the late 1800's,studying bear "attacks" and found that attacks were handguns stopped the bears 84% of the time.

Smith said:"The odds are stacked against you with a firearm".He went on to say:"If you are proficient(with the firearm),you have a good chance of defending yourself".

The reasons they cited for firearms failing were:
1.Jamming
2.Engaged safety
3.No round in chamber
4.Inability of shooter to reload
All simple fixes.

I read a Herrero statement where he spoke to media after an attack in Canada and he said bear spray was effective 80-90% of the time.This may have been before the study,not sure.

These bear researchers go on to say that spray leaves the bears alive and healthy and that 61% of the bears died with firearms.And,the Western grizzly states that recommend spray,all belong to the Inter Agency Grizzly Bear Committee whose purpose is the recovery of the grizzly bear.

Again,I'm not knocking spray but if they want to compare spray and firearms it should be apples to apples and no parsing of words to make one sound more effective.The look at firearm defense in the study covered probably 120 years or more.In the last 25 years ammo and firearms have become more efficient,especially big bore handguns,and our understanding of what is required in ammo to stop bears has increased greatly as has the availability of it.

I believe a person needs to use what makes them feel safe whether that is spray,firearm or a combination but I also think it is important to read between the lines,regarding information on this subject as some of the information being fed us is skewed.

[jhg]

Originally posted by JimB:

The reasons they cited for firearms failing were:
1.Jamming
2.Engaged safety
3.No round in chamber
4.Inability of shooter to reload
All simple fixes.

 

You left out: can't hit the broadside of a barn.

And any suggestion that there is a bias pushing spray based on a desire to save animals over human life is simply cynical and without proof. They push spray because it works, and works better than guns, in the hands of most people. A huge number of back country users do not make guns a priority in their lives and for them to use one for defense would be stupid. So why would any agency suggest they do?

 
Joshua

[ChuckC]

Statistics say whatever you want them to say.  That is also a time proven fact.  

 Use whatever you feel comfy with, just know you are in a situation that could end poorly, for you, for the critter.  Do your best to avoid getting into the situation in the first place.  

If you are gonna go into Hell's kitchen, maybe you'd better learn how to cook some chili first.

ChuckC

[longbowman]

I always make it a point to hunt bear with a partner and ALWAYS make sure my partner is somebody I can out run.  You don't have to be faster than the bear just one other person!

[eidsvolling]

Another believer in the spray, even though he is thinking of carrying a gun as well:

"The bear was big -- most Kodiak bears are -- but not that big. With Jackson’s leg in its mouth, the bear was occupied just long enough for the biologist to get the safety cap off the spray.

"'Before she could do anything else,' he said, 'I sprayed her.'

"The shot of Mace-like pepper to the face did the trick. The bear beat it out of there. A wet and battered Jackson scrambled to his feet. He was sore and knew he'd been bit, but that wasn’t all.
…
"He admits the bear 'scared the crap out of me,' and that 'I think I'll probably have a gun with me for a while now,' though he's not sure a gun would have made any difference. Everything happened so fast."

 State biologist \\'lucked out\\' that Shuyak Island grizzly mauling wasn\\'t worse

[Jeff Cooper]

Bear Spray for the following reasons:

1. Area-fire weapon versus a point-fire weapon...I do not shoot a handgun enough to be pin point accurate (especially under duress).

2. Non-lethal. Do not want to sentence helpless bear cubs (or moose fawns) to a horrible death of starvation...if I can use spray to break off an attack (or bluff charge) with spray, the young ones still have their mother.

3. As mentioned above, Bear Spray will probably be just as effective on a Cow Moose with calves, a mountain lion, a wolf etc...those last two would prove to be mighty tough targets to hit with a single projectile when they are moving quickly. Back to the Area-fire weapon part of my theory.

4. MUCH lighter to carry on a 10 day sheep hunt!

5. I shoot a glove which is very difficult to get into the trigger guard of my Redhawk without accidently firing a round...certainly don't need to shoot myself while being charged!

6. The bear spray can be employed MUCH quicker since I can use it while still in it's holster...not so much with a holstered handgun. I regularly hunt grizzly bears and when I get within about 100 yards, I remove the safety from my spray trigger. I am trying to kill this bear with my bow, so my fingers are on my string when I am in exceptionally close quarters. If I need to use the spray all I have to do is hit the trigger with the palm of my hand. MUCH quicker than pulling and aiming (accurately) with a hand gun that I have a hard time getting my trigger finger into the trigger guard.

Now, having said all of that, I will concede that there may be some bears out there with bad intentions and a hot piece of lead may be the only thing that will deter them, but I am confident that spray is still a better choice unless you want to carry both.

I will also give you that we all want to hunt into the wind...don't really want to be gasping for breath while getting pounced on by a bear. I guess I would just wait an instant longer before I sprayed the bear.

Safe Hunting!


All that bei