Cut to center

[snowplow]

Hey guys, I was watching vids on form and got to thinking about cut to center. I shoot an old no name hill looking longbow with no cut to center and just a shelf that sticks under the handle.

I always hear about point on or a given gap. But with no center cut unless I am missing something huge the arrow will never point in the direction it will go (line from string through center of riser). Or do you guys spine your arrows so it shoots a little to the left so you can 'point on' for instance?

I am having a hard time putting this to words but do you guys see where my confusion is?

DC

[2bird]

Ok,

I think you have 2 different things confused.

point on refers to the trajectory (ballistics) of your arrow.

cut to center refers to your arrow shelf, center cut means your deepest part of your shelf is in line with your string.

if your bow is not cut to center you will need to shoot a way weaker spine then you think to get your arrows to impact in the center of your target.

then when your impacting in the center of the target, you can figure out gaps (your trajectory)

make sense?

[2bird]

What are the specs for your bow and arrows?

[Bjorn]

You will have a 'point on' distance, or a 'gap' whether you have a self bow, a hill bow, or a cut to center bow.
Point on, gap, etc. refer to aiming methods which could be utilized with any bow. Others don't use either aiming method and shoot 'instinctive'-like aiming a football or basketball shot.
See if you can connect with a local club or range; trad archery is very popular in WA.

[snowplow]

Thanks guys. I didn't do a very good job explaining. I am totally with all you guys said.

What I mean by point on for instance is the left to right part. So lets say I put my point on the bulls eye with a non cut riser. The arrow is actually skewed out to the left because it is not cut to center. So if I put the tip of the arrow on the bulls eye and my spine is correct (so the arrow follows the invisible path between the center of bow and string)should I not hit to the right?

To say it another way, with a modern hoyt or similar recurve bow cut so the arrow rides perfectly centered in the riser you could put your tip on the target (point on) and at that point be looking right inline from string to end of arrow/target. And the arrow should follow that path. So for the non cut guys like me, how does one ever go 'point on'?

It seems to me that (with a perfect spined arrow) I would need to cant a bit so I didn't have my top limb in the way, and have the arrow tip always to the left of the target (because the arrow is actually pointing left when drawn).

Is that any clearer? I know it's not a really specific question, I am just more trying to understand the philosophy so I can apply it to my situation.

To answer the question my bow is 58" (IIRC) 52#@28 drawn to 29 and I currently shoot CX herritage 90's full length with 150 gr tips and (4) 4" feathers.

[Bladepeek]

I can't answer your question since I'm not a gap shooter, but I thought you posed the question very clearly in the original post.

[2bird]

having the correct spine you should NOT have to adjust left nor right. If you put the point of your arrow on a dot you should be hitting that dot. if you impact to the left your spine is to stiff and vice versa. you should not have to cant to bow to achieve this. have you bare shaft tuned your bow yet?

[snowplow]

With no cut out the arrow is pointing left when compared to a center cut riser. So is the goal to shoot left where the arrow points or to have it bend around the riser to hit when a center shot arrow would point.

Before I can bare shaft I need to figure out where those bare shafts should hit.

[Orion]

The arrow is pointing to the left before you draw it, but when you draw it, it comes back to near the side plate of the bow.  In that position, when you put the point on your target (for a point on shot) you're moving your bow to the right.  The arrow is pointing straight at the target.  The reason it hits the target is because it has proper spine and flexes around the riser when it leaves the bow.  If it's not spined properly, it will shoot left or right of the target.

Long story short, the drawn arrow is always aligned in a direct, straight line to the target. To achieve that alignment, the bow itself moves left or right, usually right for a right handed shooter, to achieve it.

BTW, you're dealing with what was originally called archer's paradox.  I.e., it looks like your arrow should shoot to the left, yet when shot, it goes straight to the target. (A factual observation seeming to contradict common sense is one definition of a paradox.) Of course, nowadays, folks misuse the word paradox as synonymous with the arrow bending around the riser.  The arrow flexes around the riser it doesn't paradox around the riser.  However, before we knew it actually flexed around the riser, it was a paradox.  

[snowplow]

OK, good explanation Orion and thanks all btw.

I thought you were trying to get it to flex around to hit where a center shot arrow would be pointing.

This certainly simplifies things =)

One more question!

When drawn and anchored with a split finger grip, and tip of cock feather out on tip of my nose, my sight picture sees the arrow coming from the right out and pointing toward the target and slightly to the left.

1. is this normal or can you guys find an anchor that aligns it straight out?

2. when gapping you have to mentally extend the arrow shaft to hit the target right? meaning in my site picture that had the arrow pointing slightly left I would have to compensate for that and not just hold it under the target right?

You guy are really helping me out. I know this is basic but you dont know what you dont know.

[Orion]

Your shaft shouldn't be pointing to the left.  it should be right under your eye and should be pointing straight at the target.  A number of things you can do to bring the arrow more in alignment with your eye.  Turn your body a bit more toward the target, and/or turn your head more toward the target before you draw. Finally,can change where you anchor on the side of your fact to more toward the front of your face.

Mentally extending the arrow shaft to hit the target is more split vision aiming than gapping.  Gapping is actually putting a gap of a certain size between the arrow point and the target. In most normal shooting, it will appear that you're holding the point of the arrow below the point on the target you actually want to hit.  How much below, or the size of that gap depends on the distance from the target and is learned through trial and error.  Good luck.

[snowplow]

Awesome thanks guys!