Bareshafting; nocking point too high...

[Flying Dutchman]

Well, last week I decided to bareshaft my setup. I am shooting a traditional recurve, centercut, and I draw 47 lbs at 29".
Arrows are Goldtip Traditional Blems, .600 spine (1535), 30.5" length, standard Goldtip insert and nock (both 12 grains) and a 100 grains fieldtip. The shafts have a 9 inch cresting, adding 15 grains to the end of the shaft. I am using one weedeater line in the shaft, which gives me a total arrow weight of 440 grains (9.4 gpp). String is an 8 strands SBD string.
FOC is around 10%, all these values are perfect value for 3D competition.

First decided to check nocking point height. My nocking point was at 9/16" at the recommended braceheight.

To my surprise my bare shafts  were porpoising at  25 yards... Normally this indicates a too low nockingpoint....

To be sure, I went back to 15 yards. And there it was: an classic case of knocking point too high. All shafts were in the pack with nock high and point low.

We worked on a proper nocking point height and in the end an amazing low nocking point height of 1/4" gave satisfying results. A straight flight and the nock just a tad higher compared with my fletched shafts.

It seems that the porpoising was caused by a too high nocking point, causing the arrow to "dive" at short distance and trying to recover at bigger distances.

I shot too many arrows to work on the spine, I was tired already. But what I saw is that the bare shafts hit a bit to the right compared with my fletched ones. But the shafts are very very straight in the pack. So my guess is I have to cut them with 0.5 inch, but I will start with 0.25.

But I am still very amazed with the very low nocking point of  1/4". Well I guess that bareshafting doesn't lie,does it ???

I wonder if any of you guys found such a low nocking point after bare shafting?

[AkDan]

a fun little experiment...try changing finger pressure...and what really will get you is hand pressure.

Try heeling the daylights out of it (or visa versa depending on how you currently shoot)..and than straight wristing it and watch what happens keeping regular string pressure as you normally would (change only one thing applies).

[Flying Dutchman]

What do you mean by heeling the day lights???

[overbo]

He means, really pushing the heel of your bow hand into the grip.

[Pete McMiller]

Though not as low as your set up I found during bare shafting that my 'normal' 5/8ths nocking point was too high also.  Bringing it down a little at a time found straight flight at 7/16".  

True, bare shafting doesn't lie but there are other parameters that can affect bare shafting results.  In my case I can take a great flight and really screw it up by cupping my string hand a little (like when I get tired).

[JARHEAD1371]

My ACS long bow shoots knock high with a bare shaft. If I lower it to make the bare shaft shoot good, then the quill of the feathers tear a gash in my bow hand, and the arrows hits the riser every time it's shot. Raise the knock point to recommended height (3/8-1/2" high)and it shoots like a dream.

[reddogge]

But on the other hand raising a nocking point is an acceptable method of decreasing your point on distance if you gap. The arrows fly just fine with feathers, not bare shaft.

[MnFn]

I agree 100% with AKdan's post.  I was seeing similar results this spring. Bare shafting may not lie but can be misleading at times.  I use it often to check form, etc.  but it has lead me to different conclusions.  Not healing the bow enough,  incorrcect finger pressure, cupping draw hand, and on and on. It is easy to develope bad habits over time.

At one point  this spring I could make virtually every spine in my collection look weak  for instance.   I just had to break down each segment of my shooting to find the culprit.  One thing that helped me was to alter my draw sequence so that I was drawing more straight line than a swing draw.  Just my experience .  Good luck with it .

[Flying Dutchman]

OK,

Today I shot with my bareshafts at 20 yards. At the time I putted 3 arrows after each other in a piece of paper from 4 by 4 inch, I decided they passed the test. Nock height is at 5\\16" now.

[TxAg]

Originally posted by JARHEAD1371:
My ACS long bow shoots knock high with a bare shaft. If I lower it to make the bare shaft shoot good, then the quill of the feathers tear a gash in my bow hand, and the arrows hits the riser every time it's shot. Raise the knock point to recommended height (3/8-1/2" high)and it shoots like a dream.

Had the same thing happen with my most recent Centaur. I shoot 3 under so my nock point is a little higher than yours (5/8") but man the arrows fly nice

[kenn1320]

Same for me, 1/4" bare shafts fly great and accurate at 30yds, but the feathered shafts tear up my knuckle. I go 5/8" and fletched hit true and no hand contact.

[Hud]

Rarely have a nocking point above 1/4". The nocking point should be rechecked when you change the string height.

[ranger 3]

The nocking point should stay the same when you adjust brace height.

[AkDan]

Thats exactly what I'm talking about..changing your hand pressure to extremes on the bow.  String pressure will give you a similar result.

It changes tiller.  We tune to a set tiller...but sometimes we end up changing something after tuning down the road...bow hand, string hand..that effects this very topic. and wamo we get a goofy kick we're not normally seeing. Or hadn't before.  Sometimes the bow doesnt need tuned..sometimes its us!    

Think about shooting a bow tillered for 3 under vs one for split.   Its not that you CANT..its that your 'numbers' may or may not be the same.

I've had bows one in particular I couldnt get to shoot...found out I had to heel the ever living life out of it...too much for my liking.   Once I did, no more kick!   Thats when the light went off....its the first sign I'm doing something wrong for me when i go back to tuning and notice a change.

Tiller..its whats for dinner  

[Friend]

My typical three under set-ups end up having a 5/8" nock point on 3under tillered bows and lonbows std tillered. Have had bows that tuned at 3/4" down to 7/16"

Have an ILF bow that I have been working with all summer. From 1/4" plus tiller to minus 1/8th this set-up prefers 9/32"s. Have tried several different spined arrows and have encountered the identical results and similar resuts whether shooting off the shelf or utilizing a rest.

She bare shafts extremely well out to 40 yards. Perhaps, I still don't wish to believe what I am seeing.