What do you know about this style of bow?

[snowplow]

     

This might be the nicest looking bow I've ever seen. Its a Han from Cinnabar Bows. I just dont know anything about siyah bows and even less about the non-contact versions.

Would this act just like a static recurve?

What do you guys know about this type of bow?

[nineworlds9]

This would basically just be called a hybrid in western bow terms.  It does seem to have siyah type ends but the end doesn't seem to rest inside the string loop but partially.  It kinda blends elements of horse-, long- and recurve bow in one.  I have heard good things about this Cinnabar bows.  They are imported by a fellow in California.  They seem to be kind of an affordable alternative to a Saluki.  I bet its a very smooth pull.

[snowplow]

I just found a term for this bow I think. Mollegabet bow. Supposed to be smooth shooting and fast.

How do you think this would differ from a normal long bow or Holmgaard bow?

Seems like it should feel about the same. Maybe with more bend towards the handle so a smoother ramp to full weight. Maybe a bit less finger pinch?

[Pat B]

It is not a Mollie or a Holmie bow. Both of them have straight limbs. It looks like a FG bow built somewhat in the style of one of the Asiatic Horn Bows.

[snowplow]

Whats an FG bow?

[halfseminole]

It's a replica of a Han dynasty bow, from an era of shorter arrow and slightly lower arrow weight, around 800-1000gr.  It's fiberglass, of course, and the non-contact siyahs still give it the benefits of a static recurve but without the added snap of string bridges.  It's an excellent intro to the world of Asiatic bows.

The better question is what are you after.  There are short bows meant for Mediterranean draws, ones that accommodate anything, but until you personally decide for yourself what mix of features you are looking for, there's no do it all choice.  You have to know what you want and then adapt to the bow you choose.

 http://attilasarchery.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25

That might be a better option to test the waters with.  Much less expensive, still fully capable.

[Pat B]

FG stands for fiber glass.

[snowplow]

I dont mean to sound like a dunce here, I know I must be missing something because you have said that a few times to me. I am not trying to ignore the advice either, I just dont know what else I should specify. I do know what I am looking for. However, I dont know what all the different variations of the asiatic stuff changes in the real world. Here is what I want in my next bow.

1. I want a short of a bow as possible, however 3 finger release will play a part in that.

2. I want it light, fast, and efficient as possible because my use will be ground hunting.

3. I dont want a loud bow.

4. Looking in the 60# range (so Kaya/Samick is not an option)

I have shot many reflex deflex short western recurves and for some reason do not like shooting them. So I just stayed with my longbow though it wasn't my favorite. Then I shot my friends Samick Mind 50. And for some reason I really like shooting the asiatic (deflex/reflex I think) style with the handle behind the limbs.

What I am currently considering based on the above is a Hwarang or a Ming Moon from Cinnabar bows.

The Hwarang sounds like its lighter, faster, and shorter but I am under the impression that quality and uniformity is not always consistent. I dont love that.

The Ming looks great. I have heard it compared to a saluki. No speed numbers, but I get a general sense that it is close to the Hwarang. Looks exceptionally built which I appreciate too. It is offered in a bunch of different lengths. I would like as short as possible, but I dont know what that would be considering 3 finger release.

I liked what I saw at cinnabar bows as far as it was generally what I was looking for and better than average finish it seemed. But before I decided on the Ming, I figured I needed to see what the Han is all about because I have no experience with that style at all. That is why this thread is here. It seemed to me to be effectively the same functionally as a static recurve but possibly slower (siyah weight) and maybe less stacking. The Qing I didn't consider at all because it's just longer than I want.

Now you know what I know.

I like the hwarang, but it makes me nervous and does not look robust. And like the Ming probably the most. I haven't found anything that I like more than the ming for my needs. I didn't really want a big siyah bow like the attila because I cant see how the efficiency could equal the korean stuff. The ming isn't korean but pretty similar.

That's where I'm at. I am totally up for suggestions. Maybe I'm going about this wrong.

[halfseminole]

No Asiatic bow is all that efficient under about 75#.  That's a fact that needs to be stated.  Asiatic bows were developed to fling very heavy arrows from horseback.  I consider 850gr a light arrow.  One of my bows is accurate at weights above 2000gr.  That's the point with Asiatics.  The length is a concession to their original function.

You are describing a Kassai Raven or the Ming Moon, essentially.  The Hwarang only functions best if you use Korean techniques.  The Kassai is designed for either three finger or thumb-their maker holds multiple records using his bows and a three finger draw.  The Ming is described as a low-price Saluki, and I support that.  It's a very nice bow I think would serve you well.

What you're missing is the learning curve necessary here.  I've been shooting these bows since my early twenties, so a bit over a decade.  I'm still learning more every day.  You won't learn everything in three weeks, or three months, or three years.  Getting good with thumb draw can take more than six months.  At 60#, you'll be under max efficiency for the bows, so there's no real benefit over short regular recurves except aesthetics.  

If you still want to learn, those of us who shoot will be glad to share.  But you will be in for a long learning process akin to learning to shoot over again.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  I made the transition after crushing my hand, which left me unable to use "normal" draws.  But it still took me more than a year to develop good form and consistency.  That's over a year of exclusive thumb draw.  Your mileage may vary, but it's not a change like split to three finger.

[snowplow]

I see what your saying. I have pretty much let go of the 'working into thumb draw' idea with this bow. The fact is I want something different than what I have now and three finger is how I shoot. I can play with thumb draw later (or not).

How is a bow designed differently for three finger or thumb?

'No Asiatic bow is all that efficient under about 75#. That's a fact that needs to be stated.'

Thanks for mentioning that, I haven't heard that before. Is that true even for modern materials like carbon and fiberglass?

I am not getting my head around how a bow can perform good with a heavy arrow but not with a light one. Or how it can do good over a certain poundage but not under. What am I missing?

Thanks for all the good info!

[halfseminole]

It has to do with what those levers are for.  Average draw weights then were 80-120# and people practiced every day.  When we first built replicas, we built light ones and they were not really that great versus other designs (longbow, simple recurve) but when they made replicas that matched the specified weight they were better at flinging the heavier arrows we know they used.  Each bow is designed to shoot a specific type of arrow-and that is where they find their greatest efficiency.

Any bow can fling a 575gr arrow.  My 64" Manchu inspired bow can throw 2000gr with impunity.  That's their niche, and where they perform best.  My horn bow pulls around 65 at 36" and can easily shoot a 1000gr arrow, while being 50" total length.  That's its forte, and that's what I want it for.  I hunt close range with arrows that throw my targets they carry so much kinetic energy.  Helps me compensate for the dead leg I'm dragging.

[snowplow]

Gotcha. Is there any rules of thumb or guidelines on when a bow gets too short to comfortably shoot 3 finger? (Or are there too many variables like siyah style?)

[halfseminole]

Never seen one too short.  Friends have shot my 50" horn bow split, Flemish and three finger without issue.  Not being able to replicate their draws, I have to take their word for it.

[snowplow]

Thanks! Looks like it's going to either be the Ming 4 or possibly the Ming 7 @ 46" if I can verify I am under the draw length.

Is it a bad thing to be right at the end of the available draw?

[halfseminole]

I draw 36-38" at all times.  I'm not the one to ask about draw length.

[snowplow]

!!! Holy smokes !!!