Wood shafts tapered to 1/4"?

[Wandering Archer]

Well, has anyone ever done it? Did it work? Not work?
I notice most 11/32 shafts taper to 5/16, and was just wondering if I do my own tapering is there any reason I can't go down to 1/4"?

Would it not be able to hold up?

This will be for a 47lb. longbow that I'm planning to build EFOC tapered shafts with 300 grain points.


As a side question, how much does tapering affect spine, if at all?

[AkDan]

You'll loose spine.   Length of taper and also in diameter will dictate how much and it seems some shafts will loose far more than average while others may only loose a couple pounds.  I generally drop a spine group on avg with a 9" taper going from 23/64 to 5/16.    The closer towards center you get the more spine is affected.

As for 1/4 never done it.

[Dale in Pa]

I'm sure you could do it.I've gotten close to that tapering some 70-75s down to 50#. Biggest issue would be making sure you nock taper first so that the nock is centered on the shaft. As to strength, I think it would be OK,probably better with a hardwood or Doug Fir though.

[gringol]

Never never gone that far, but tapering from 23/64 to 5/16 over the last12" of shaft didn't give me much FOC.  Maybe 1 or 2 %.  It still might be worth it, but I wouldn't expect a large FOC benefit.

[bigbadjon]

To build an efoc arrow you really must use carbon. I don't think you'll be happy using an arrow from a 47# that's easing up to 800 grains. As for tapering the shaft down I don't believe you will have a durabilty issue.

[Bjorn]

You should not lose any more spine than you lost going to 5/16. It is all at the end of the shaft and the bending occurs in the middle. Just don't make the taper any longer. I agree the FOC won't change we are talking about 5 gns of wood unless it is something like cocobolo even then it would not be more then 15. A cedar shaft loses 20 grains tapered from 11/32 to 5/16 as I recall.
For 300 gn tip-have you calculated how much more spine you will need?    

[Zbone]

Where ya gonna find a 1/4" nock?

[Wandering Archer]

Thanks guys, from your responses, it looks like it might be worth try. I'll be using doug fir, so hopefully I won't have a problem.

As a side not, I'm not exactly trying to create an EFOC arrow simply by tapering. The 300gr point is what I believe will do it for me. So far I'm at 17.5% with cedar shafts and 190gr point. Total arrow weight is only 500gr if I remember correctly.


 

Originally posted by Bjorn:
.
For 300 gn tip-have you calculated how much more spine you will need?        

No I haven't. How do I do that?
I've been trying to figure out how to do that, but my research comes up empty. All the info I can find is for carbon shafts.
I've just relegated myself to ordering a test pack from surewood.

Hey! just realized you are in Los Gatos. Are you a member of BHU by chance?

[Wandering Archer]

Originally posted by Zbone:
Where ya gonna find a 1/4" nock?

https://arizonaarchery.com/Shop/nocks/31-arizona-z-nocks-100-pk.html#/quantity-100_pack/size-1_4/color-red

^They have them in red,which is what I'm looking for. Otherwise you can get white from 3rivers.

[Orion]

As Gringol and Bjorn point out, a normal 9-inch taper one arrow diameter takes off about 20-25 grains of weight depending on original diameter and material.  That translates into about 1% FOC, so at it's best, going to 1/4-inch will add about 2% FOC.  

As a very general rule of thumb, I've found that I've had to add about 5# of spine for every 50 grains of additional point weight over 125 grains.  So, if you're going up another 100 grains in point weight, you'll need at least another 10# of spine, maybe more.  Keep in mind that as you add spine weight, you'll often be adding additional arrow weight, which requires additional spine, etc.

Good luck.

[Surewood Steve]

Tapering to 5/16 is the most common and our machine will go down to 9/32 or 1/4, but the changing and re-setting the sander is to much labor to offer that option.  Tapering down to 5/16 on a 11/32 shaft will take off about 20-25 grains as mentioned above, plus we also take off 1-2# of spine.  This is on the ones that we re-weigh and re-spine after the sanding.  Of course we don't re check every one we send out, because the above numbers are so consistence.  Steve

[Pat B]

Use self nocks.

[Bjorn]

Orion has given you the numbers above. If it were me I'd taper to 5/16 and do the rest with sandpaper, if you really want 1/4-it is difficult or time consuming. But I would stick with 5/16.
And yes I am a member of BHU! You too?

[Wandering Archer]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
Orion has given you the numbers above. If it were me I'd taper to 5/16 and do the rest with sandpaper, if you really want 1/4-it is difficult or time consuming. But I would stick with 5/16.
And yes I am a member of BHU! You too?

well, I'm planning on building a jig to do it myself, so I imagine it isn't any more difficult to build the jig to 1/4" instead of 5/16".? I just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time making a shaft that will break, or lose so much spine as to be useless. Doesn't seem like that's the case, so I'll give it a shot.

Yes, I must have seen you around then, but I haven't been there as frequently as I was a couple years ago. 2 babies and 3 jobs... I was at the hunger games a couple weekends ago though.

[hvyhitter]

note: 1/4 inch nocks have very small throats so string fit my be an issue. Opening them up will leave the sides pretty thin, same problem with self nocks.......... few things to look at if you try it...............

[RIng]

For years I have tapered 11/32 & 5/16 down to 1/4" nocks . Using a sanding disk to put a 1/4 " taper then using the point of that taper to index in my tapering jig for a long ( 1/2 ---2/3 of the shaft ) taper .They worked great . Now I shoot GT blems .

[AkDan]

What about a rattail taper?  Straight taper from point to nock instead of just a nock end taper?  That would reduce the shaft even more..though I don't think its enough either, you might gain a few more % of foc. 23/64 down to 1/4"  be interesting to see what kind of weight and spine you'd loose doing it.   I don't have the jigs to build a rattail or the time to tinker around playing around doing it.  A few long weeks at work and I'm back on the vacation wagon heading south.  

I'd measure the 1/4" nocks as you may find you have to fudge a little bigger or smaller depending on brand, after paint and finish if you're looking for a smooth transition from nock to shaft.  I didn't pay attention to what nocks they were.  I also may have some 1/4" stuff still as well if you cant find any.  I'll post if I do.

[Sockrsblur]

Might sound silly but get a note book and take good notes. Taking the time to do this has helped me.a.lot with repeatability of spine and weight. Have fun and keep us posted!

[Wandering Archer]

Originally posted by Sockrsblur:
Have fun and keep us posted!

Will do definitely! But it may be some time before you see my results thread, since I don't exactly have the time for this between two jobs... But I'll manage to squeeze it in somehow, eventually.