Bare Shafting not going as expected

[snowplow]

Hey guys. Thought it's not perfect, I have been seeing if I can determine a spine requirement for my new helms deep. I have a CX Heritage shaft kit with all spines and a point kit as well. The CX spines done line up perfectly with what I am looking at to buy, but I was thinking it should get me close enough to narrow down which shafts to buy (.300,.400,.500 etc)

When I did this with my longbow, it was super easy and you could just see a horizontal line of shafts about 6" apart. Not so much this time.

My longbow has an uncut riser. This Java Man has one cut about to center. Do I remember hearing that they were more forgiving of spine? That would make sense because there is very little difference in spines when going off of impact placement.

[JimB]

What distance are you shooting?

[gringol]

You need to post more info.  Impact point? Nock direction? Right or left hand, etc...

[snowplow]

Sorry I'll give you the whole story. I was just wondering if different shaft spines are less noticeable with a center cut bow.

I was shooting 10-15, 20, 30 yards.

I shot a herritage 90, 150, 250, 350 with 375 gr on front. (want to run somewhere around 300 gr hopefully but only had a 200 point, and 315 point that when measured weighed 364 gr + 11 gr insert) I figured I could get it close at least and hopefully at least narrow down which spine shaft to order.

The 90 shot just a few inches right at 20 yards showing weak. (the 90 is a 30-1/4" shaft). The shaft yanks left pretty hard during the flight but the tip isn't far off.

The 150 initially shot about the same (as its a 32-3/4" shaft) so I cut it down to 30-1/4" (thinking that's my min and if it shows too stiff I can make it work). I shot it and it's 0-2" right The shaft still leans left but not much.

The 250 at 32-3/4 seemed about the same

And the 350 @ 32-3/4 was noticeably too stiff of spine (3-6" left)

When I have done this in the past I noticed very obvious impact differences, but not so much movement of the shaft.

If you asked me right now, I would say I could order a .500 spine arrow. Because I shot the 150 (.495 spine) and it showed just a bit weak. However, I was running 75 gr more than I wanted in the point, Could shorten the shaft 3/4", would gain .005 spine, and could build out the strike plate.

You guys have any wisdom for me?

[snowplow]

I'm right hand shooter. Shooting into a bag target (all I have) and though the shafts leaned left during the shot they impacted almost or all the way straight.

[woodchucker]

Hmmm, Put feathers on your arrows and shoot them???

[snowplow]

Thats kind of what I was wondering. I thought you just paid attention to impact point and not so much what the shaft does unless of course it's hitting sideways or something.

Even the shaft that was clearly too stiff leaned left during flight. So I cant really see how it could be from being underspined.

[snowplow]

So I guess my question is this: When bare shafting should the shaft fly perfectly straight (ideal)?

If the nock is kicked left (during flight not necessarily in target) is that too weak?

[jonsimoneau]

If you can get the shaft to fly perfectly straight without feathers you will be in the game. However, I have noticed that if I get a shaft flying perfectly straight without feathers and then fletch it, it is often stiffened up by the feathers. I think this has more to do with the drag than the actual feather weight. If this happens I normally can make adjustments in brace height to straighten them back out. What I would do is take a shaft that you know is too weak. It will hit to the right (if you are a right handed shooter). Trim them down until they hit dead center of where you are aiming. It doesn't matter if the tail of the shaft is still kicking to the left. Just make sure it is impacting where you are aiming. At this point go ahead and fletch one and see what it does. Most likely it will fly perfect but if not, then it is likely still a little weak. Trim a little more off till if flies like a bullet.

[snowplow]

I'll recheck everything and give that a try!

[jonsimoneau]

Let me know how it works out.

[snowplow]

I rechecked everything and then shot them with feathers. It shot ok but not perfect. Then on a whim I stripped the feathers off one of my Arrow Dynamics Trad Lites just to see and as always pretty much with any tip they fly like bullets. I really like them with a 200 gr and 300 gr point. So then I ran the numbers and was really surprised that the FOC was so good and even better than the with the ultralite shafts. The 200 gave 26% and 300 gave 30% FOC with 580 gr and 626 gr respectively.

With the ultralite shafts the best I could get was 26% FOC at 601 gr (was trying to not go much over 600).

So I know which shafts I'll be ordering...

[ed cowden]

Tuning is a measurement that I want to see on target and be able to confirm. Foc may be good , but perfect tune hits were it is center of target.
I think a tuned arrow will hit the best and most arrows will penetrate or shoot threw for a good kill. Comes right down to hitting the mark.

[john gerrard]

Just a side note. If your form i.e. your release isn't just about perfect bare shafting will drive you nuts.

[woodchucker]

Put feathers on your arrows and "throw the ball"