help with arrow flight adjustments

[Hobies]

so i am trying to dial in my arrows using methods i have read about here. this is the first time i have done this.

my info:

so i am shooting a #43 62" little crow raven td.

my draw is 26.5"

i am trying to dial in the arrow with no fletching on the shaft.

shooting 1916 aluminum shafts at 28.5".

i have tried both 130 grain and 145 grain field points.

i have also shot a 29.5" length shaft as well.

i have moved the knock up and down.

i get the same result out of all those variable which is: the arrow flys straight as far as vertically. it doesnt veer left or right. the back end of the arrow kicks up to about a 45 degree angle then comes back down to the targe. usually on target but low.

my first question: i am supposed to be getting the arrow to fly straight with no movement in flight, correct?

second question: if in the ideal world, the rear of the arrow is not supposed to kick up during flight, what does it mean when the back end bucks? heavier or lighter grain? different spine shaft? length?

any help is appreciated. thanks

[Outwest]

Usually when the rear of the shaft kicks up and down it is a knock point issue.
It is possible to move the knock point to far one way or the other and not correct the problem.
Adjust the knock point no more than 1/8" at a time.

[BRITTMAN]

Outwest is right its more than likely nock point , if you are shooting 3 under the nock point could be as high as 1 inch . Also tie a second point under the arrow nock .
Mike

[Diamond Paul]

If it comes out high left, it might be hitting the shelf and kicking; lots of people interpret this as nock too high and move it down, which only confuses things, because it doesn't fix it.  Go WAY up with the nock, then work down slowly one turn at a time (why I use tie on nocks) till it levels off, then stop.  As mentioned, tie a second nock under the arrow to keep it from slipping down as you draw.  Contact like that might make you think the arrow is too weak, but I shoot that same arrow out of a 45lb recurve at just shy of 28" draw, 28.75" long.  You might actually need more point weight at your draw, unless that is actual weight at your draw length, and not the standard 28" measurement.  I use 125, but can shoot up to 150; it will bare shaft slightly weak with that point, but flies fine with feathers.  Plucking the string on release can also make the arrow do funny things.  Google Adcock's bare shaft planing method, and you'll get a link that explains how to do that.  It works even if your form is not perfect.  Good luck.  Paul.

[Diamond Paul]

By the way, bare shafts usually will appear just a tad nock high in flight and usually stick that way just a little in the target when compared to a fletched arrow if your tune is correct.  They should group relatively together, though, not one group really high, low, left, or right of the other.

[damascusdave]

I see that you just joined us a while ago...does that mean you are new to archery and if you are how do you know you have consistent form...fine tuning without consistent form can be an exercise in futility

DDave

[Bill Carlsen]

Here is how I determine the correct nocking point on the string. I use a bare shaft. I get about 8 yards from the target and shoot the bare shaft straight into it. If the nock is high I lower the nocking point until the arrow is sticking straight in the target. Reverse if the nock is low when it enters the target.

[moebow]

I'll echo what Dave asked.  How new to archery are you??  EVEN VERY experienced shooters can have trouble with bare shafts.  A bare shaft is ABSOLUTELY unforgiving to ANY form or execution error.

Then you get poor bare shaft flight that is usually poor technique BUT is interpreted as poor tuning.  Then the race to total confusion is on.  The shooter changes arrows, point weight, brace height, nocking point, etc., etc.  And ends up extremely frustrated and confused.

IF you are a beginner, then just shoot the arrows you have (fletched) and enjoy the process without concern for tuning.  You can play with nocking point height and brace height to get the FLETCHED arrows flying well but save the bare shaft and other "stuff" you read about for later.  You'll know when to pursue this farther.

Arne

[Hobies]

Originally posted by BRITTMAN:
Outwest is right its more than likely nock point , if you are shooting 3 under the nock point could be as high as 1 inch . Also tie a second point under the arrow nock .
Mike

thank you. i forgot to mention i am 3 under. so yes, my knock is too low. its about .5" right now.

[Hobies]

Originally posted by damascusdave:
I see that you just joined us a while ago...does that mean you are new to archery and if you are how do you know you have consistent form...fine tuning without consistent form can be an exercise in futility

DDave

yes i am new absolutely. i been shooting everyday for a few months but on and off for a couple years.  i understand that my form may be off sometimes but i still like to tinker and play. i am down to 3 arrows because they have been bent and beat up over the years so i need to order some new ones and so i was playing with bare shaft just to see before i order new arrows.  but right now the release is my least consistent part of my shot.

[Hobies]

Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
 but I shoot that same arrow out of a 45lb recurve at just shy of 28" draw, 28.75" long.  You might actually need more point weight at your draw, unless that is actual weight at your draw length, and not the standard 28" measurement.

good point. with #43 at 28", i figure i am only shooting #38

i have shot 1816 shafts out of this bow and they flew nice. think i should try that or 1914 for fun?

[Diamond Paul]

1916 will work, you'll just have to use a heavy point.  Would have been best to leave them long, though.  It's just a matter of finding the length or point weight that makes the dynamic spine work from your bow.  You might have to go to as much as 250 up front if you've cut them really short.  Whether the speed you get is a problem from that, only you can say.  Paul.

[Hobies]

Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
 Whether the speed you get is a problem from that, only you can say.  Paul.

i hear ya totally. i could easily run them 29.5" in length.

so which is better ideally?

1. a weaker spine and less grain

or

2. heavier spine and a heavier grain

whats the average spectrum for grain?

[Diamond Paul]

It's personal; whatever gives you an acceptable trajectory and enough weight to quiet the bow.  That's an individual thing.  My arrows are 9-10 grains of arrow weight for each pound of bow weight, usually.  I think my 1916s are about 430-450 grains out of a 45lb bow, although that is an estimate based on what the shafts are supposed to weigh; I have not actually put the arrows on a grain scale.  I don't worry that much about it.  I just see what the shafts weigh per inch, multiply that by the total arrow length, and take an average for inserts, nocks, etc.  Those shafts weigh 10 grains per inch.  Based on that, and what I shoot, I know that my arrows are going to come in at a weight that I deem acceptable to me, based on experience.  Good luck.