Arrow flight and spine

[Krex1010]

New trad bow shooter. I shoot a bear Montana 45#, my draw is about 28" on the nose. I'm shooting heritage carbon express 250's which are spines at .391" I believe. My accuracy is improving, only shooting between 10-15 yards at this point. But it seems my arrows kick up and a little to the right upon release, then straighten out. Been researching online and here and I think I may have to play with my nock a bit, but I also think I may be overspined. Or maybe I just don't have my form and/or release ironed out yet......anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

[9 Shocks]

Welcome to trad archery!  It is full of tinkering and fun!  Many arrows can be played with to work out of a bow by changing length, brace height, pointweight...etc...but I would say you are way stiff!

I would look at getting an aluminum arrow.  A size 1916 would probably suit you well.  If you are wanting to stick with carbons you should look into an arrow with a .600 deflection.  If you are sticking with heritage arrows Id look at a CE heritage 75 or 90.

There are many threads on tuning arrows and why arrows do specific things when leaving the bowstring but I will assume you are a right handed shooter.  Up and to the Right means stiff.  If the arrow is flying nock right and impacting with the point to the left and nock to the right the arrow is stiff.  If the nock is left and the point is impacting right, the arrow is weak.  There are many youtube videos that help illustrate proper tuning and some even made by members here!

Have Fun, its addicting!

Kevin

[Brad Arnett]

I don't know how long your shafts are or how much weight your running up front, but I had to run 29" .500's with 225-250gr up front in my 50# Montana and I too draw about 28". I could run .400's but had to shoot with 300gr up front.

[Krex1010]

My shafts are 29.5", I'm shooting 125 grain field tips. So it seems like I'm overspined and light up front.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by 9 Shocks:
Welcome to trad archery!  It is full of tinkering and fun!  Many arrows can be played with to work out of a bow by changing length, brace height, pointweight...etc...but I would say you are way stiff!

I would look at getting an aluminum arrow.  A size 1916 would probably suit you well.  If you are wanting to stick with carbons you should look into an arrow with a .600 deflection.  If you are sticking with heritage arrows Id look at a CE heritage 75 or 90.

There are many threads on tuning arrows and why arrows do specific things when leaving the bowstring but I will assume you are a right handed shooter.  Up and to the Right means stiff.  If the arrow is flying nock right and impacting with the point to the left and nock to the right the arrow is stiff.  If the nock is left and the point is impacting right, the arrow is weak.  There are many youtube videos that help illustrate proper tuning and some even made by members here!

Have Fun, its addicting!

Kevin

Great post Kevin!  2X on this one... Except i wouldn't go with aluminum arrows. The damn things bend to easy....

[slowbowjoe]

Sounds quite overspined. I'd guess at least .500's (long & heavily weighted point), or more like .600's with moderate length and under 200 grain points. No expert opinion here, just based on the 45# bows I had when I shot carbons. Back to wood now, but if you look at the spine comparisons I think the spine in pounds will look higher than you think when comparing carbon with wood.

[Krex1010]

Very much appreciate the advice. And yes I'm a carbon arrow guy, I love how they are either busted completely or fine to shoot. These 250's may be a bad match for my current bow but I can always save them for a heavier bow I'll likely own in the future lol

[Krex1010]

Any minimum recommended gpi? I'm shooting 10.8 gpi now, the lesser spines heritages arrows get lighter, any recommendations for other carbon brands that have less spine but retain the weight? Or is that something I should even worry about? I do like to try and practice with the same arrows I'll eventually hunt with.

[9 Shocks]

I would try to stay around 10gpi with a 45# bow.  You could still shoot a 600 spine arrow and put a weight tube in it to get the overall weight higher.  3 rivers sells weight tubes.  They are a sponsor here and wonderful folks!

[Krex1010]

Gotcha, thanks. Time to start tinkering lol

[jhk1]

I'm no carbon expert, but I would say a 250 carbon arrow is way too stiff for any traditional bow you'd probably be able to shoot comfortably (I'm guessing the bow would have to be over 70# draw weight, maybe even higher).  Probably need something like a 35-55 (Gold Tip and some others use this nomenclature) or 500 spine, with enough weight up front to make the arrow around 400-450 grains total (9-10 grains per pound of draw weight).

[Diamond Paul]

You could probably use a .600 spine carbon (Traditional Only, CX, and GT all have them); they are generally smaller diameter than the other spines, so you'd have a nock point adjustment with those, probably.  1916 aluminum arrows generally work well at that weight and length, too.  That's what I use out of my recurve at that weight and draw length.  A .250 is a pretty stiff arrow for that setup.

[Coach Jones]

I am shooting CE Heritage 90's cut 29 inches and 175 grain points from my 45 @ 27 RER Retro.  Total weight is 486 grains.   I tried shooting 150's but just to stiff.   Those 250's would seems like an arrow on Viagra from my bow.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Krex1010:
Any minimum recommended gpi? I'm shooting 10.8 gpi now, the lesser spines heritages arrows get lighter, any recommendations for other carbon brands that have less spine but retain the weight? Or is that something I should even worry about? I do like to try and practice with the same arrows I'll eventually hunt with.

I don't know what length you want these to be, but you could most likely get a Heritage 150 with a hundred grains of brass insert going though that bow and still end up 10+ gpp. I just measured one of mine at 29.5" with a 100 grains of brass & 100 grain feild point and it came in at 466 grains...... Its really hard to beat those heritage shaft for durability.

btw... 9.5 - 10.5 gpp are perfect IMO