Black Widow question

[Ced]

hi guys  

I have a newb level progression question, if you don't mind.

I've been absorbing as much tradarch data as my poor brain possibly can, for the last 6-7 weeks or so,

and while I understand some people will roll their eyes and sigh, there is currently no doubt in my mind that I want my first "real" bow to be a black widow.

I totally understand that sages and ragims and so-called entry-level bows are fine and will take down big game as well as any custom bows, but RIGHT now for me, the concept of shooting a blackwidow as soon as physically able, is as much a part of the attraction I feel for tradarchery than the act of learning itself. As many people told me, life is long and you'll own many bows anyway, so personally, right now, I feel like starting with a PMA in 64", the longuest recurve they have to accomodate my 30,xx" draw.

But of course I have barely started shooting, so a decent form at 30# is not for right away.

soooo, as I got fed up with crappy rental bows and am currently considering what to buy in the entry-level bow choices, probably a polaris in 70", a new mohegan pro in 68", or a journey/polaris hybrid in 66"  (currently borrowing 66" polarises, different and badly used each time),

It hit me that even though shooting field target with a 30" draw the polaris in 70" sounds like the wise choice,
I have started considering that while I plan on building up body structure and form on increasingly heavy polaris limbs, 2# at a time, I'm a bit worried about how big the change will be when someday I jump from a 70" polaris to a 64" Blackwidow PMA.

So I thought I'd ask you guys what you would recommend, what I should be training and learning on if my current goal is to prepare my body to shoot with that PMA in 30#.

I know there are many good bows, I know the cheap ones shoot fine, but I keep coming back the black widow and I've learned to listen to my gut feelings, however spoiled and eye-candy-sensitive they might be LOL

While I know BW seem to itch some archers, so far their design, reputation, customer service (best so far IMHO) and relatively short backorder waiting time fits me best.

i do have the budget for it, and I 'd rather listen to my guts, give it a shot and regret it, rather than never knowing.


What I'm asking for basically, is some rough estimate of what cheap(er) bow I should be learning on so that the transition from such bow in #28 to a PMA in #30 will feel as natural as possible.

i know bows are different, etc, but there has to be a way to roughly equate a 64" PMA with a [insert bow name] in [insert AMO].

Or so I hope.

Thanks  

[BigJim]

First, you are way overthinking this thing. Making the transition won't be that big of a thing. When you shoot any one bow for an extended period of time, that will be the bow you are most comfortable with until you do the same with a "new" bow....that is unless one or the other is poorly designed mostly in the grip and shelf area.
If you are just wanting to start out with something, there are many inexpensive offerings but I wouldn't worry about trying to find one that will compare so closely. I understand that you are wanting to shoot targets with this, but to go with a recurve that is so very long such as you suggest is not necessary but if that is what you want, so be it.
I have a 32" draw length and have no interest in shooting a recurve over 62" and prefer my 60"...but I am a hunter first and last and won't be saddled with such a long bow as it is not necessary for me to be accurate. Some may tell you that I have very large hands yet I never experience finger pinch in the shorter bows either nor do I need forgiveness (at least from a bow).
We are currently selling a 62" recurve called Bullseye. It is on closeout from Bear and they are available in Rh 62" and 29Lbs for $80. A great "starter" bow, but if it was me and I was dreaming of the Black Widow and could afford it...I would have no problem pulling the trigger on it right away and forgo the pain of shooting the lesser bows.
If you can afford it, you won't regret it.
Black Widow makes an awesome bow and a better group of guys you will not find anywhere.
You may find out later that you prefer something else or you may have to purchase another widow but you will never know until you try.

If you spend too much time reading opinion, you will go nuts...I see it all the time.

good luck, BigJIm

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Jim hit this one on the head with a 10 lb hammer.

Also, If you are having bows shipped to Japan, a 3 piece bow may be cheaper to ship. just food for thought.

[stabow]

Go with the BW.....

[Ced]

Hey Guys, thanks for the input    


Stabow >> winkwink lol, I will eventually, but i just can't "start" at 30#. I'm gonna need at least 3 different pull weight before I get there. I'm surrounded by overbowed people and people who f*cked up their shoulders starting out on massive weight bows.  As my american friend here says, lithe Japanese can be really strong for their bodytype, but not "farm strong" like many americans I know. And I'm kind of a cityboy too.


cyclic>>>  thanks for that    ,  yes definitely, one-piece bow shipping can be challenging. I found a shop in germany sending pretty much anything en masse for under 40 bucks, and they have a wide range of entry-level bows, including samick models not sold in the US, like that polaris in 70", a model called Samick Mind 10, which is basically a Polaris with slightly darker woods, also up to 70", and a version of the Journey called the "Red Fox", that they willingly ship with polaris limbs.

The only shop so far who seems to struggle with decent international shipping is 3rivers, with a weird outdated shipping quote.


BigJim>>> thanks a lot for taking the time to write in detail!  
Yes, I overthink many things most of the time LOL
But I know myself, and want to avoid regretting the money and time invested in my first purchase.
The reason why I am overthinking this, is because tradarchery is so paradoxical from a newbie standpoint:
On one side people tell you "form is everything" and "dontcha go under 68" with that draw length of yours, lad!"
On the other side, practical hunters taking down big game successfully, and shooting stuff in mid-air instinctively, tell you that a bow's a bow, that 60" is fine, that nothing stacks or pinches, and that if it does, so what? LOL

Just opinions about the samick sage get comical: for some t stacks badly past 28", for others it doesn't stack one bit even at 31"...  I've rarely heard of an art(or sport...) with so much freedom of style.
The problem here being consistency and discipline, I'd like to get as much structure as possible from the start.

I do understand form is important, I KNOW from my shoulder screaming last week that starting heavy will screw me up,
And since I have both the budget and amazing international shopping convenience to choose my first bow(s) wisely, thanks to you guys (LOL), I might as well go anal at least in the beginning.

I'm surprised though at the comment about how each bow will be a new bow and take time to re-adapt. i had thought naively that past a certain experience point you guys could just borrow a bow and get the feel of it pretty quickly. I guess bows and guitars don't work the same.

Too keep it simple, I was just wondering whether I should let go of that 70", and start right away on a 64", since that's what I will be shooting later on. The problem is, can I safely assume that a 64" entry level recurve pulls and feels like a 64" BW, when my guts tells me "probably not. Hence this thread ^^

[KSdan]

Jordens-

I shoot a 31" draw.  I agree with BigJim as well as I have shot BWs for 25 years.  Realize too that a 62" SA has a shorter riser than the MA.  Thus in design, the 62" SA has a similar working limb as a 64" MA.  Further- Your desire to work up is good- but with a little exercise and shooting regularly (shorter sessions more often) I think you may be surprised that you could shoot a 45-50# just fine.  My grown children (boy and girls) could handle 40-48# bows when in their teens.  My personal bow is a 62" SA, 55# @ 31.5" draw.  It is very smooth with zero stacking.  I can't see ever owning a different "go-to" bow.

Dan in KS

[MnFn]

The Footed Shaft has a  fairly new used 64" BW  for sale, then buy whatever lighter limbs you want. Very nice bow, I fid not see any flaws in it.

[The Whittler]

I agree with Big Jim, very good sound advice.

[MnFn]

The Footed Shaft has a  fairly new used 64" BW  for sale, then buy whatever lighter limbs you want. Very nice bow, I fid not see any flaws in it.

[MnFn]

duplicate

[Caughtandhobble]

Welcome!!! Ok, lets not put the cart in front of the horse. You may be a longbow person?  

I love Black Widow bows, but I also own and love Journeyman and Big Jim bows. One option is take your time and try out some used bows and see what you really like. Or, just get that Widow and learn with it. You do know what they say about the fellow that only shoots one bow (they likely shoot it well).

I have often thought if I had started out with a PMA that I could set aside $50 a month and get a new set of limbs every year. That would have been a way cheaper way than the way I went but I have shot and traded a multitude of bows and I enjoyed them all.

Have fun and never get in a hurry with traditional archery, short cuts cost you in the long run. This site is a great place to start, you can mingle with bowyers, world class hunters and world champion competitors and just ordinary people like me.    

Good Luck!!!

Ben

[LongStick64]

The biggest danger of this sport is the amount of money in you wallet and the number of great bows out there. Each one will end up looking better than what you have. It took me a long time to work through many bows until I found what really appealed to me. When I think back to the purchases I made they were all made on impulse. Sometimes we make bows out to be more than what they are, and sometimes we can imagine the great differences that are generally minimal at best.

[Ced]

Caughtandhobble>>> hi there  
 i have only tried recurves so far...  As for trying out used bows, I would love to, but around here in Japan, the only used bows I have access to are samick polarises,  crazy expensive and way too heavy compounds, and generic olympic style hoyts, also generally too heavy for the shooter's need and physical condition.

If I had twice the budget I have, I'd actually consider flying all the way to the states to do an archery frenzy weekend, with some instinctive clinic session to boost, but right now that's not an option. I'm seriously surrounded by "modern" archers, who at  most, know their own bow well, but can't really help with trads, wooden or even barebows in gerenal.
The only cheap stuff I can get here are old yamaha's, but they still go for samick prices, so I'd rather go there.

They all say barebows don't hit the target or don't get them enough points. There must be something wrong with their eyes since yesterday I shot a swinging apple at 15 yards for fun with an old samick polaris.
I think people around here don't enjoy shooting... They just want "hole in one" moments like sunday golfers.

So basically, every used bow I want to try, I have to buy and import  :(

[Ced]

Longstick>>  Hi  

Yeah I can imagine it getting easily out of hand.

Good thing is, it seems popular bows resell easily.
Whatever cheaper bow I buy will just rot away in my attic when I move on...

I'm having this slight confused moment when I look at online invoices for archery gear, quiver, arrows, tab, nothing too fancy, and I realize that the bow price is only 25% of the total order cost LOL

[BelegStrongbow]

Hey Ced, there's a lot of good information here and through out the rest of this site. People have given great suggestions thus far. Now I am no expert by any means and I am still very new to trad archery as well, but I have made purchases of bows and other items before being able to try them. I have learned as it seems you have as well is to trust your gut so to speak. I think you're  spot on when you said you need to try out a BW one way or another. If I were in your shoes I would buy the widow. I've done that dance before where I would buy the cheaper alternatives before actually shelling out the money for the one item I knew I had wanted all along.

I guess my best advice would be to simply have fun with traditional archery. Even if you get caught up in all the technical aspects of it, or really focus on becoming a champion target shooter, just have fun. I hope you get exactly what you want in terms of a bow, but beware bow fever is highly contagious and symptoms include a constant yearning for a new bow.

[finkm1]

I have a widow PSA and love it. You may want to try the test program. Also, for what you will pay for a new widow, you could buy at least a couple used good quality bows from the tradgang classifieds. I would stay away from the new cheap bows.

[LookMomNoSights]

Buy a 64 inch PLX in the 45 to 55 pound range and end your suffering! Please!   If you HAVE to have a widow.....
2 years from now (and likely many other bows), you will look back to this thread and chuckle.....