Help - what instinctive style do you shoot?

[suttoman]

I need a bit of advice here from somebody who is more experienced than myself.  I am really struggling with my accuracy of late.  I have a good burst of hitting exactly where I want, then the next brace of arrows spray all over the place like a mad dog's breakfast.  I have swapped between the two styles (upright stance like Olympic archer and bent over leaning into the shot traditional stance).  Nothing seems to be working.  I have spent ages on youtube watching videos by Grey Archer (he lives in Sweden), Arne Moe, Jimmy Blackmon, John Shultz etc.  I have watched so many and tried so many different things I am worse than before, and confused and frustrated.

I am good at up to 15 yards with straight out instinctive shooting, but not so good at the longer distances.  I am not too bad at getting the elevation correct, but the windage is my problem. I seem to spray arrows left and right.  I have tried gap shooting but my arrow is so far below the spot at closer distances that I can't use it (I shoot split finger).  I tried shooting 3 under and it was a disaster.  Arne Moe gives lots of good advice, but he has a more upright Olympic stance, I prefer the leaning into the shot stance like John Shultz.  The reason is If I shoot upright I lengthen my draw by quite a bit, it makes my bow a bit stronger than what I want and can hurt my shoulder on long shoots.  The leaning forward stance shortens my draw, the bow is easier to pull and my shoulder likes that.

I am not wanting to start a debate here at all, because lots has been written on this stuff.  I just want to know from people who have experienced my problems and worked through them.  What I mainly want to know is how do you shoot, by judging the gap, or straight instinctive.  I like the straight instinctive but find it very hard on distances over 20yards.

I live in a very isolated gold-mining town in the Western Australian desert.  There are certainly no archery coaches here, so I have to learn everything off the internet - hence my questions.
Sutto

[Possumjon]

When I shoot left and right it's usually my release. Try relaxing your hand and let the string pull through. Usually I'm plucking when they go left and right

[Orion]

I use split vision that Howard Hill used.  He describes it in at least one of his books.  The idea is you look at what you want to hit, but you also have the arrow in your peripheral vision.  Your peripheral vision tells you when the arrow is lined up correctly.  When it is, you let go of the string.  

In fact, this is pretty close to gap shooting, but the shooter doesn't consciously pick/set a gap for the shot.  

If your arrow is in tune, and your eyesight isn't cross dominant, left right problems are caused by moving your bow arm and/or plucking.  Develop some sort of mantra you can use to remind yourself to keep your bow arm steady (until the arrow hits the target) and to keep your drawing hand tight to your face through the release.  Good luck.

[Gordon Jabben]

Sutto, I'm just a little over average on accuracy but I use the gap method as described by Howard Hill.  After a while, it becomes almost instinctive as you don't have to consciously think about the gap but you are still using the arrow for reference in your indirect vision if that makes any sense.

[Bowwild]

I string walk for elevation.  I'm a lefty. When I have windage issues it is to the right. Then I remember to "paint my face", following through with my draw hand along my face and under my ear.

[Bjorn]

I stare at the target. Elevation works good when I empty my head and allow my bowhand to find the distance, a bit of gun-barreling can be helpful.
Bowwild the most accurate/impressive shooter I know is a string walker-lady.

[McDave]

I'm afraid what you're describing is caused by being over-bowed. There are really only two answers to that: if you're young and strong, you might be able to build up your strength to work into your bow.  Otherwise, get a lower poundage bow.

BTW, on a completely different subject, I was really intrigued by the movie Red Dog, about a western Australian mining town.  Have you seen it and what do you think about it?

[Jakeemt]

Your main problem is that you are over bowed partner. I typically use the straight up and down style but when I cant the bow I have the exact same draw length. If you are hunching your shoulders up and loosing draw length you aren't doing yourself any favors in the accuracy department. Try this draw straight up and down and   Use those back muscles. Once you master that style start tilting the bow using the same muscles. If you like to shoot instinctive thats fine. It will work with any aiming method.

[suttoman]

Thanks guys. It may sound like it but I am definitely not over-bowed.   At my longer draw my usual limbs on my Predator Impact are 45#, but were pulling around 47 (29" draw).   However, as you say, I was a bit over-bowed and it was too much.  Just last two weeks I received a lighter set of limbs I ordered for my Impact - they are only 39#, and so easy to pull.   So I am definitely not over-bowed now.

McDave - yes unfortunately I saw the movie Red Dog.  I don't usually watch Australian movies because they are mostly rubbish (not very refined and I hate the Australian rough accent - I am from New Zealand).  I am a High School teacher so we had to take the year 12 students to Perth a couple of years ago, and one of their treats that day was to go to the theater and see Red Dog.  It was OK, and is apparently a true story.   All of the red dirt and kangaroos and desert scenery in that movie is exactly the same as where I live.

Sutto

[Ulysseys]

Most of my problems with inconsistent shooting I found to be related to my release....once I figured out how to use my back and pull through my shot by "relaxing" my hand and not simply trying to let go of the string my shooting became much more accurate and consistent.  Archery is about consistency and repeatability so think of that.....same grip, same anchor, same release, same follow through from a well tuned bow.  I shoot split vision, which I feel is a form of aiming with the arrow tip more than anything.

[suttoman]

Yes you are correct Ulysseys - I had an epiphany today!  I knew if I kept watching and reading and trying the lights bulbs would come on one day.  I watched a video last night by Jimmy Blackmon.  He stood on a stretchy strap then lifted it up with his string arm, to illustrate the release.  He was illustrating the point that there should be NO tension in the muscles at all in the string arm, and particularly the wrist and forearm.  Then he said just relax the fingers and the string will pop out.   He said to grip the string well back into the first joint of the fingers.

I tried on the stretchy strap last night and man it illustrated the point brilliantly.  In the last 25 yrs of shooting bows I have always shot the string at my fingertips - thinking I would get a cleaner release.  However, I did not realise it until I did this exercise, that in order for it to stay there I was tensing my forearm and therefore my wrist - but never getting a clean release.

I have just come back from the club this afternoon and as soon as I shot the first arrow today it was one of those moments of realisation.   For the first time I could feel no tension in my forearm, the whole arm was relaxed and man it made a difference.   No more spaying arrows all over the place.   The change was so dramatic.   I think I have answered my own question here.   However, I put this reply up for anybody else who may be struggling with their release.  Do yourself a favour and watch this:

 

Sutto

[acedoc]

i recently got my first trad bow and read a book by bryan sorrels.i have been following his mantra i. e. first just practise the draw and form around 500 times, my bow is [email protected].
i felt it to be a lot initially but now it's in hand. let loose my first arrows recently. they flew well enough in a 3 inch group at 6 yds. after reading Howard hill method of split vision my group is half of earlier but you gotta read mr hills description of it.
on another note the bow (Trinity td falcon) is the least fussy bow in so far at the ranges i am shooting. no drama, quite and dead in hand

[old_goat2]

Since you live down where the toilet swirls the other way I'm not as sure how to help you as far as recommending a particular shooting clinic. I would suggest you find an Olympic type shooting instructor, learn that style good then you can morph it into a hunting style form. That's basically a good description of how the better shooters in my area shoot! And to actually answer your question, I believe I shoot more of an instinctive gap especially at longer ranges. I never really think in terms of yardage but I definitely use my arrow as an alignment tool!
Cheers!

[mahantango]

That's fantastic! You won't find better info than Jimmy Blackmon or Arne Moe's videos. Next best thing to a personal coach. If more people would really, really listen to them and apply their techniques I think we would have fewer shooting questions on here.

[ChuckC]

I typically use the ChuckC style, which, if you ask me, is most suited to my lifestyle and physique.  It has been developed over a very long time and tested extensively.
ChuckC

[Babbling Bob]

Philip, you are probably right about the 15 yards for most people I know thinking of the past where you can shoot without a gap. Seems like I have to hold on those 15 to 20yd targets sometimes to make sure I bring the arrow down and then trust my judgement. Just working the distances over time is what I had to do with a gap at the mid distances of 25 to 45yd and long distances 50 to 80yd.  There will be a point on distance at mid ranges of 35 to 50 yards where the point of the arrow is right on the target, depending on your bow and arrow combination plus three under or split finger set up.

After a while, you sort of get the feel of your bow and you and it are like peas and carrots.  Most of us don't shoot serious target archery anymore with long distances where a practiced known gap distance is important, but gaps are important in my opinion for getting to know your bow.

Originally posted by Orion:
I use split vision that Howard Hill used.  He describes it in at least one of his books.  The idea is you look at what you want to hit, but you also have the arrow in your peripheral vision.  Your peripheral vision tells you when the arrow is lined up correctly.  When it is, you let go of the string.  

In fact, this is pretty close to gap shooting, but the shooter doesn't consciously pick/set a gap for the shot.  

If your arrow is in tune, and your eyesight isn't cross dominant, left right problems are caused by moving your bow arm and/or plucking.  Develop some sort of mantra you can use to remind yourself to keep your bow arm steady (until the arrow hits the target) and to keep your drawing hand tight to your face through the release.  Good luck.

He typed it, so I did not have to! This ^^^^^ is exactly the same for me!

Bisch