Whip vs Buffalo vs Kaibab vs Abbott

[Wandering Archer]

Assuming they are all the same price, and all made from the same woods, how do these stack up against each other?

If you've shot at least two of these, please discuss the technical shooting qualities of each and how they compare.

Smoothness of Draw
Finger pinch at 28" (w/62" bow)
Stacking at 28"  (w/62" bow)
Hand Shock
Speed
Stability

It seems I can find more info about the Toelke Whips than I can about Big Jim's Buffalo or the Chaparral Kaibab. These are the three I think I've narrowed it down to. The Abbott is what I currently own and shoot, so it's the control so to speak. I have access to shoot Kaibabs, but I don't know anyone with a whip or buffalo.

[Crittergetter]

I had the oppertunity to shoot Marty's (akdd) whip about a month back at a gathering. Absolutely the smoothest, quietest, most shock free bow I've ever shot! I fell in love and haven't been able to get that bow out of my mind since! Lol.
On the other hand, I haven't had the pleasure of shooting one if Big Jim's yet even tho Big Jim is my hero! I know this doesn't really answer you question. Sorry!  

[Iowabowhunter]

Only experience is with a few different Whips. I am a recurve guy myself, just never could get a longbow to shoot well for me.

That being said the Whip I shot was by far the quietest bow I have personally shot or heard someone shoot. Really threw an arrow with authority, the gentleman has a longer dl (31.5)but only shoots about 43-45# at that dl, was using a 10gpp arrow and it was heading 190 fps.

[Bullfrog 1]

Whip is going to be hard to beat.   Bill

[M60gunner]

A new Abbott will be a hard find. Steve passed away last year. I never heard what happened to his equipment or his stock of woods. He always had some very nice Yew.
I shot his bows years ago when he was a vendor at our Trad shoots. I always thought they shot well and compared to my Pete George LB I had then.

[nineworlds9]

My choice would be the Whip.  I feel the Whip is a bit quieter and more dead in the hand than the Buff by a slight margin.  Given a choice, I prefer Big Jim's Thunderchild to his Buff, the TC is more dead in the hand and just happens to be shorter and more pointable.  The Whip has much narrower, deeper core limbs compared to the Buff which is closer to a flatbow than a longbow in comparison IMHO.  Quality of both bowyers is superb either way.  The wait time on a Toelke is darn short which is hard to beat.  If you want wider limbs to show off crazier veneers and the slightly greater bump on the shot doesnt matter then the Buff is a fine choice, but dont rule out a Thunderchild either.  62" in both bows will be just fine at 28".  Very similar draw feel between the Whip and Buff.  Study photos on the net to get an idea of the aesthetic and physical differences.  Dan will send you a bow to test drive if you want and Jim might be willing if has one lying around?  Both super guys.

[Wandering Archer]

Originally posted by M60gunner:
A new Abbott will be a hard find. Steve passed away last year. I never heard what happened to his equipment or his stock of woods. He always had some very nice Yew.
I shot his bows years ago when he was a vendor at our Trad shoots. I always thought they shot well and compared to my Pete George LB I had then.

Yes, I am aware of that. I currently shoot an Abbott so I'm using that as my comparison control.
He had an apprentice if you want to call it that, and he is continuing to make bows. I don't know what he is calling himself and if he has a website or not, I will have to find out the next time I run into him

[Wandering Archer]

Originally posted by nineworlds9:
 Dan will send you a bow to test drive if you want and Jim might be willing if ge has one lying around.  Both super guys.

Wow! That's great to know! I'll have to talk to them and see if I can't get my hands on a test bow, that would really help me to be able to handle and shoot them in person.

[michaelschwister]

I have a classic whip 64" 64# @28 and a abbott 66" 60# @ 28" in yew lams, so I can comment on these two. Both are at the very top of my list, and I have shot/owned most bows in this category. The whip is faster, dead quiet, but more critical to hand placement and back tension, although not nearly as critical as any recurve or most R/D hybrids.  The abbott is slower (but more than fast enough), even quieter than the whip (almost selfbow quiet) but very  forgiving and very sweet to shoot.  It really puts the arrows where you look every time under hunting conditions. I recommend owning both, but if you sell your abbott call me first! If I were to get another whip (which I probably will) I would go with the regular grip as this may help with my grip issues with this performance bow. If bows were cars the toelke would be a ferrari and the abbott would be a range rover.

[arrow flynn]

Idont own an abbott but I have shot one and agree with the above.chris his partner worked on the bows with steve for 5 or 6 years and is still at it.Steve was at a lot of west coast shoots in the bay area especially and had a big following.He was proud of his bows and it showed.

[arrow flynn]

Idont own an abbott but I have shot one and agree with the above.chris his partner worked on the bows with steve for 5 or 6 years and is still at it.Steve was at a lot of west coast shoots in the bay area especially and had a big following.He was proud of his bows and it showed.

[Wandering Archer]

Thanks michaelschwister, I'm really torn between the Whip and Kaibab right now.

I contacted Dan about getting a test bow, so we'll see what happens there, but I have a guy offering a Kaibab at the right price, I just can't make up my dang mind... Hopefully if I can get a whip to shoot and shoot the whip and my friends kaibab side by side, I'll know for sure what I want.

I couldn't agree more arrow flynn. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Abbott several times before he passed. He was usually at at least one of the 3D shoots I go to every year in CA. 80% of the group I shoot with shoot Abbotts, and I have to say that overall, I really like them, but I just can't fall in love with the one I currently own, even though I do shoot it really well. In fact, I think I had my best ever shoot last weekend at Western States with it.