Easton axis traditionals question

[Cmane07]

Ok guys I have some questions.  I have been shooting traditionally for several years now but have always used the same arrow, GT trads in 5575.  Well I want to increase my total arrow weight and go to a skinny shaft because I haven't been real happy with the penetration I'm getting.  I'm shooting a bw pa which is 50lbs @28" and I draw to 28.25".

I want to shoot the axis trads and would love to get an arrow weight of at least 550 grains, maybe a little more.  I have been playing with the spine calculator and with a 400 spine it is showing the arrow will be way weaker than I need it to be when I approach that 550 grain mark. Surely I don't need 340s?

One more question.  I also see that you have to buy the brass inserts separately now so would you still buy these at $20 a pop or use glue on broadheads and heavier steel adapters to get to the desired weight?  I plan on using 4-blade deltas.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  I will also be using 3, 5" feathers with no wrap.

I don't know about the axis trads, but I shoot Axis Full Metal Jackets, and with the full length shaft (.400 spine) and a 75gr brass insert and a 150gr point/broadhead, they weigh 567gr. I use 3-4" feathers.

I shoot these off my 50# at my DL (29.5") Sarrels Blueridge longbow, and they tune great. I just got back from South Africa where I shot 10 animlas. I got total passthrus on several, and complete pentration (entrance and exit holes) on most of the rest. I am very pleased with how these arows performed for hunting purposes!

Bisch

[Biathlonman]

I shoot similar specs as you, a 340 could work but will be over 600 grains.  400 should be fine, I would use whatever inserts they come with, points and adapters are usually pretty cheap.

I'm having a hard time believing you are having penetration problems with those specs and a good tune.

[Cmane07]

Thank you bisch, that is good to know!

Biathlonman, they are tuned but I also have been shooting rather large broadheads (Simmons treesharks) so that could be the case.  At any rate, I have some turkey feathers I need to fletch and back in my wheelie bow days I loved the toughness of the axis and have always wanted to try them so I figured now is a good a time as ever.

[Biathlonman]

Now that I can see, those tree sharks are huge.  My 3 blade VPA out of my similar spec bows never seem to slow down.

[Ray Lyon]

With my 52# Bear TakeDown with your exact draw, 29.5 BOP arrow length 50 grain brass insert and 145 grain broadheads, 500 size arrow wrap, 3 5" feathers Easton Axis Traditional shafts  I was getting great arrow flight. 575 grain arrow.

 With my Super Shrew longbow which was 58# I was using regular Easton Axis shafts in a 400 size with 50 grain brass inserts and 200 grain Razorcap broadheads.

[Kevin Dill]

I prefer 340 Axis shafts. I go with the full brass insert/weights. My broadhead + adapter = 250 grains. I fletch with 3 x 5" normal profile shield feathers. I shoot 3-under, and my bow weights are typically 55-65 pounds at 28". My draw is about 28.5". The unknown factor (to me) is how far past center my risers are cut. That will definitely play into what spines you can shoot.

I arrived at 340s by following Bob Morrison's advice. I started with a full-length bare-shaft 400 at 5 yards. I used a field point with weight identical to my broadhead. I kept shooting, cutting and evaluating flight/impact. I ran out of shaft before I found enough spine, so began again with the 340. I hit money when the shaft got to 29.25". Perfect flight and it didn't change with a broadhead. That's when I went from high-profile fletch to normal profile. I didn't need the steerage and I also benefitted from better fletch clearance through the riser window.

[Jack Hoyt 75]

In my opinion no way does a 55# bow take a 340.  A 340 would be what I shoot out of a 65# compound.  I shoot Axis Trads a lot and would think you would need a 500 or 400 for sure.

Best bet is to get a spine test arrow kit from 3 Rivers or get a few single to try out then by a whole dozen.

For me a 50# bow at my draw length takes a cut down 500 spine Axis with 75 gr insert and 150 gr broadhead.  At my length the arrow ends up at 510 gr total wieght.

When I shot 400 spine to try them they consistently hit left of aim point which told me they were to stiff for me. ( I'm right handed)

Just my .02

[Mike Vines]

Originally posted by Jack Hoyt 75:
In my opinion no way does a 55# bow take a 340.  A 340 would be what I shoot out of a 65# compound.  I shoot Axis Trads a lot and would think you would need a 500 or 400 for sure.

 

I too thought a .400 Would work just fine for my 55# Longbow.  Was I ever wrong.  I, much like Kevin, couldn't cut enough off to get them stiff enough with my 300 grain BH (225 Tuffhead and 75 grain titanium adapter).  Total arrow weight is 685 grains.

I bought a dozen .340 FMJ, ended up cutting 2" off of it and now my bare shafts with field points, impact the same place as the fletched shafts with field points AND broadheads.  

Best part is that because of my FOC (24%), I can use tiny fletching, which I call the "MV Fletch".  I have had to stop shooting multiple arrow groups because I have cut the fletching on a couple arrows.  

I believe I'm prepared, equipment wise, for a DIY moose hunt in just over a month now...

     

[tracker12]

Originally posted by Bisch:
I don't know about the axis trads, but I shoot Axis Full Metal Jackets, and with the full length shaft (.400 spine) and a 75gr brass insert and a 150gr point/broadhead, they weigh 567gr. I use 3-4" feathers.

I shoot these off my 50# at my DL (29.5") Sarrels Blueridge longbow, and they tune great. I just got back from South Africa where I shot 10 animlas. I got total passthrus on several, and complete pentration (entrance and exit holes) on most of the rest. I am very pleased with how these arows performed for hunting purposes!

Bisch

You won't do any better than this recommendation from Bisch.  I have not found any arrow with any better penetration except maybe ACC.

Originally posted by Cmane07:
Thank you bisch, that is good to know!

Biathlonman, they are tuned but I also have been shooting rather large broadheads (Simmons treesharks) so that could be the case.  At any rate, I have some turkey feathers I need to fletch and back in my wheelie bow days I loved the toughness of the axis and have always wanted to try them so I figured now is a good a time as ever.

I shoot 1 1/2" wide GK broadheads at deer-sized critters and have no penetration issues. If I do go after something really big, I use the 1 1/8" wide GK heads.

Bisch

[trad_bowhunter1965]

Great information.

[JARHEAD1371]

I'm shooting a 50# @ 28" ACS longbow and 55/75 are too weak with 200 gr up front. The .340 or .330 spine arrows are perfect. I have been told it's because of how I shoot, but I one reason is the bow is past center shot. The 55# BW PSA I shot also took .330/.340 shafts. I shoot the black Axis shafts and they are the toughest I have ever shot. It takes quite a wallop to break one.

[Producer]

Brass inserts are $11 to $16 a dozen not a piece. Get various sizes and hot melt and have some fun.

[Onions]

I also shoot similer spec as yours. I shoot a 50lb St Joe recurve with .400 arrows cut to 29.75" long. On the front end I have 300gr. 3 X 5.5" parabolic feathers. Total weight is 600gr.
My bow is cut just past center.
I tried .340's at 29.75" with 300 up front WAY too stiff. I put a 125insert into a 190 gr. field point, with a 100gr brass insert 415gr still too stiff.

chris <><

[Pheonixarcher]

You've got plenty of good advice here. I'll add that you can also manipulate the dynamic spine of an arrow by using footings and a fletch wrap. For my set up, a fletch wrap on my axis trad 500's required a 3/8-1/2" longer shaft for the same tune, versus no wrap. Adding any weight to the rear of the shaft will stiffen the arrow, as will adding an aluminum external footing.

Another trick that I use on my axis shafts is to use double HIT inserts. It can be tricky to install, but it works great to stiffen the shaft as well. And by placing the added weight in the shaft behind the point (internal footing), instead of all the weight on the point, it doesn't weaken the shaft. You get added weight and FOC, and stiffen the shaft at the same time.

You can use a combination of 50,75, or 100 grain inserts to achieve your desired weight and still use the broadhead weight of your choice. I'm sure the double insert trick will work with the aluminum inserts as well.

I use a Q-tip and denatured alcohol to clean the inside of the shaft, and a rag with DA to clean the inserts. I heat one insert so that the blue hot melt cool flex, melts easily. Use a generous amount on the first heated insert. Push and twist it into the shaft until there is 1/8" left sticking out and plenty of excess hot melt. Grab the next insert and finish pushing and turning the two inserts into the shaft, again stopping with about 1/8" left to wipe the left over hot melt off on a rag. Then use the insert tool to set the proper depth and go straight to the cold running water. You have to be quick with this process though, because it's a big pain to remove them and start over. It's really not that difficult once you've done it a couple times. I've used this method for the last two years, and have not had a failure yet! (Knock on wood)

My finished arrow is 29.5" bop, 7" fletch wrap, 3 4" parabolic feathers, 150 total grains HIT brass inserts, and 125 gr tips for a finished weight of 569 grains. This arrow flys well out of a few different bows, but was originally tuned for a 51#@28" Javaman Elkheart. I draw just over 27". It also tunes perfectly to my Stalker Wolverine static tip 47#@28"

[rolltidehunter]

your set up is not tuned if you do not have over 500 grains out of your bow with a 55/75 shaft. Your tip weight is probably too light. You should have no penetration problems if your arrow is tuned to your bow.  Before you go buy new arrows strip off all the fletchings on one arrow and shoot it with a field tip.  Watch ken becks bare shaft tuning video on YouTube.

[Cmane07]

Thanks for all the great advice guys! This sight never disappoints.

Pheonixarcher- That is some good info about using multiple inserts, I would have never thought of that.

rolltidehunter- Maybe they are not tuned now because I did improve my form and gained a little in draw length, but when I first got these arrows I did bareshaft them and they are still flying pretty darn good.  When I say I don't like the penetration, I am also using a small subset of data.  I have only shot 4 animals with that setup, 3 deer and a hog, but I have yet to get a pass through or even 2 complete holes.  I'm sure it could be a number of things and I could also potentially swap heads but I am low on arrows and I really just want to shoot the axis's so maybe I should have just wrote that to begin with.

[rolltidehunter]

Good luck