Opinions?

[2bird]

[ChuckC]

That very light arrow was also noticeably thinner in diameter.

I think we put way too much into this.  For the majority of us, deer is the big game we hunt and we need maybe 6" of penetration to hit both lungs, maybe less.  Most any arrow that is flying well ( not wobbling badly from being untuned) will achieve that.   Everything else is frosting on the cake.

For bigger game, well, I am still not sold,
ChuckC

[KentuckyTJ]

Penetration has mostly to do with how straight your arrow is flying when it hits the target. How straight its flying is a matter of the correct spine and head weight for your bow. If all three of those arrows fly perfect from your bow then your test is legit. If not then the fact that the lighter arrow penetrated more may just be because it was better tuned out of that bow.

Shoot them all through paper at 3 different ranges and show us those results.

[2bird]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
That very light arrow was also noticeably thinner in diameter.

I think we put way too much into this.  For the majority of us, deer is the big game we hunt and we need maybe 6" of penetration to hit both lungs, maybe less.  Most any arrow that is flying well ( not wobbling badly from being untuned) will achieve that.   Everything else is frosting on the cake.

For bigger game, well, I am still not sold,
ChuckC

Right on, we need to worry 10X more about putting the arrow in the right spot then anything else. Just thought this was interesting.

[2bird]

Originally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Penetration has mostly to do with how straight your arrow is flying when it hits the target. How straight its flying is a matter of the correct spine and head weight for your bow. If all three of those arrows fly perfect from your bow then your test is legit. If not then the fact that the lighter arrow penetrated more may just be because it was better tuned out of that bow.

Shoot them all through paper at 3 different ranges and show us those results.

To be clear this is not my video, just something I seen. I agree that a tuned arrow will penetrate better then a unturned arrow, I wish he would have state if the arrows have been tuned to the bow or not.

[LBR]

Never understood why there's so much controversy, especially based on targets made of gel, phone books, wood, foam, etc.

Go to the dangerous game forum and see what people who have actually shot huge animals have experienced.  

Pretty much any "test" can be skewed, intentionally or not.  Real world results don't lie.

[2bird]

I think it just stems from the new age trad people who insist that that if you’re not shooting a massive arrow from a bow with "no gadgets" "instinctively" then you’re not "trad" when back before compounds people just shot whatever arrow flew good, didn’t care how much it weighed and didn’t even know what FOC was and it was 50/50 that they were shooting with a sight.

it's kind of like some people are trying to rewrite history with stuff that was not ever there in the first place then saying you’re not a part of our group if you dont like our new history...  

Meanwhile because of this, people who don’t know any better are jumping through hoops trying to make arrows and shoot bows that arnt necessary and shooting ways the rob the fun from archery or are not the way they really want to shoot just to appease a group of people who don’t really know what’s what.

If you want to shoot a 900 grain arrow from a 45# selfbow, blind folded, go for it it's your bow your shot your archery.

if you want to shoot a 330 grain arrow from a 35# target recurve with a sight and a peep with a mechanical release, go for it it's your bow your shot your archery

If you want to share your opinion with someone by all means go right ahead but don’t get your feelings hurt if someone disagrees with you...

[LBR]

I thought the point was about penetration?  That appears to be what the video is about.

Reference the dangerous game forum for real-world results.

[2bird]

Originally posted by LBR:
I thought the point was about penetration?  That appears to be what the video is about.

Reference the dangerous game forum for real-world results.

The video is about penetration but the whole need for the video and all these "controversy" topics etc is because of what i said.

yeah your going to need a heavy bow and a heavy arrow to shoot a rhino but a lot of trad shooters seem to be worried if their 550 grain arrow is heavy enough to kill a 120# deer out of a 50# recurve. That is my point. Real world results tell us for deer, turkey, black bear if the arrow is tune and the broadhead is sharp the animal dies, bow # arrow weight etc etc is all not that important within reason

[monterey]

Weight is a consideration to the degree of the size of the animal.  As said above, the typical whitetail hunter does not need the weight that a moose hunter might need or want.  

But, regardless of the end weight of the arrow, FOC is a good factor to consider.  Want to shoot a 350 grain arrow out of a 35# bow for whitetails?  Consider getting the FOC as high as possible for better penetration as well as arrow flight.

The pink fatter arrow was not flying straight when it hit.  We have had two different archers tell us that they have never had pass through on deer in recent years.  One was a cp shooter with mechanical heads and light arrows, the other was a recurve shooter with very heavy arrows and rather large replaceable blade heads.  The recurve guy basically said that if he was not getting pass through hits, neither were we with our short draws, longbows and wood arrows, especially my wife.  I said "you should tell that to the forty some deer we have had pass through hits on, sounds to me like you have the problem, not us."  Just to prove me wrong he shot at bale to show us how much power he had.  His arrows flew horrible.  They were assembled for him at area archery shop that sold him the bow, loaded with weight tubes.  I would bet that when they checked him for arrows they gave him the draw length test bow they use that has about five pounds of pull, so the arrows were way over spine and his real draw was much less than they or himself realized.

[MnFn]

Another thing to consider is I do occasionally hunt elk and expect to hunt moose reasonably soon.  I prefer to be comfortable with shooting a bow around 55 lbs and to be the most proficient I can be, I think it helps to stick with one bow that may be overkill on a deer, but enough for bigger game.

Just my thoughts on why I shoot what I shoot.

[2bird]

Originally posted by monterey:
Weight is a consideration to the degree of the size of the animal.  As said above, the typical whitetail hunter does not need the weight that a moose hunter might need or want.  

But, regardless of the end weight of the arrow, FOC is a good factor to consider.  Want to shoot a 350 grain arrow out of a 35# bow for whitetails?  Consider getting the FOC as high as possible for better penetration as well as arrow flight.

FYI best arrow flight is achieved with 7-10% FOC, thats why most target arrows have such light points.

[2bird]

Originally posted by pavan:
The pink fatter arrow was not flying straight when it hit.  We have had two different archers tell us that they have never had pass through on deer in recent years.  One was a cp shooter with mechanical heads and light arrows, the other was a recurve shooter with very heavy arrows and rather large replaceable blade heads.  The recurve guy basically said that if he was not getting pass through hits, neither were we with our short draws, longbows and wood arrows, especially my wife.  I said "you should tell that to the forty some deer we have had pass through hits on, sounds to me like you have the problem, not us."  Just to prove me wrong he shot at bale to show us how much power he had.  His arrows flew horrible.  They were assembled for him at area archery shop that sold him the bow, loaded with weight tubes.  I would bet that when they checked him for arrows they gave him the draw length test bow they use that has about five pounds of pull, so the arrows were way over spine and his real draw was much less than they or himself realized.

I hear ya!! I know this Youngman that hunts with a compound and we stated that he does not get pass through on deer. so i asked him what # his bow is and what arrows he was shooting. His bow was set at 60@29" and he was shooting a 29" 400 spine Easton FMJ with 100 grain G5 montecs (this set up should be zipping through elk like butter). So i told him to bring it over so we can tune it and he didn’t even know what i was talking about, he had never heard of the term "paper tuning"... needless to say his arrows wagged like a dog, got him paper tuned and he was amazed at how much more accurate his bow was not. About 2 months later he shot a doe square in the shoulder and the arrow ended up in the ground on the other side. A well tuned arrow is very critical. so yes i agree that the outcome of the video could be different if both arrows where tuned to the bow, really wish he would have shown their tune...

[2bird]

Originally posted by MnFn:
Another thing to consider is I do occasionally hunt elk and expect to hunt moose reasonably soon.  I prefer to be comfortable with shooting a bow around 55 lbs and to be the most proficient I can be, I think it helps to stick with one bow that may be overkill on a deer, but enough for bigger game.

Just my thoughts on why I shoot what I shoot.

If your hunting elk and moose then thats a good weight, i have never hunted either but i would be shooting a 50# bow and a 500 grain arrow. If you can shoot a 55# bow well with solid form then more power to you. Have you ever thought about have a deer arrow and a elk/moose arrow? I bet a 440-450 grain (8 gpp) arrow would shoot like a laser beam from a 55# recurve, i doubt you would have more then 5" of arch between 15-35 yards, talk about confidence in the woods knowing you have just 1 spot to aim at from 15-35 yards to stay in the kill zone and a 450 grain arrow from a 55# recurve would blow through any deer in the world, i bet it would do fine on elk too imo

[MnFn]

Maybe it would.  I like to keep things simple; if it works for elk, it will certainly  work for deer. I am satisfied with what I am currently shooting trajectory-wise.  I probably dont shoot at game as far as other guys do.  Just my preference.