Stabil core carbon ?

[bowfanatik]

Hi guys
I'm in process ordering new bow . With or without carbon between laminate ?

What carbon means for bow performance ?
Help
   

[monterey]

Well, I'm just an amateur bowyer, but I'll take a poke at it.  Most of the work done by the limbbs is at the outside surfaces.  The closer to center of the limb, the less work that material is doing.  So, a carbon lam dead center is not going to add any significant performance.  However, if the carbon is significantly lighter than the lam material on each side of it, it would be serving to reduce mass which would be a performance enhancer.  It could also contribute to stability of the limb, and if your bowyer indicates that it is needed for stability, then you should go with it.

What does your bowyer say about it?

[legends1]

Go with bamboo you will like the results alot better.

[bowfanatik]

My bowyer say that is carbon useless in bow . Bow is already stable enough .

[zipper bowss]

The stabil core I'm familiar with is not carbon.
 
If the bowyer you have chosen says carbon does not help his design then I would not ask him to use it. He should know what works and what does not work in his design.
Bill

[md126]

What about Centaurs XTL lam?  That seems to be an internal/core carbon and seems to help with stability and silence without sacrificing performance. Seems like it would probably work with other designs

I doubt a core carbon lam would work in a recurve but the woven carbon as an outside lam seems ok, like the ones used by Zipper and Morrison.

My only concern w/ carbon is it's long term durability. Maybe a bowyer who's done a lot of testing can comment to that.

[M60gunner]

I wonder, it seems carbon, foam, and stabil materials are being used successfully in ILF limbs and have been for more than a couple years now. Yes, those limbs break but it seems it is the cheapest ones at fault most of the time. Also those limbs are pushed to the lightest arrow. Now why can't those materials work in a hunting bow using hunting weight arrows?

[Wheels2]

I shoot carbon core limbs and like them.
I tried both the Carbon Extremes and a couple pairs of Borders.
They are a bit faster

[zipper bowss]

Carbon and foam works wonderfully when used in a design that takes advantage of its properties!!!In fact 9 out of 10 bows we build are carbon and foam. If I had my way every one of them would have carbon and foam in them. Just stuffing carbon and foam in a limb will not make great gains UNLESS the limb is designed for it. Maybe bowfanatik's bowyer has not designed his limbs to take advantage of these materials.Or maybe he has tried the "off the shelf" carbons and found them lacking. I know I have.  That is why I said if bowyer does not feel it is worth it in his design not to try to push him into it. If he does not like to use carbon it does not mean he can not build you a good bow.
  By the way not all carbon layups are created equal.We have about 10 years of experience trying multiple different lay ups to finally come to the very successful carbon layups we now use.
I really do not want to go any further in my explanation. I just wanted to give Milan my opinion based on my experience. Maybe it will help maybe not.

[bowfanatik]

this is that design , i alredy have this bow from photo
   
   

[legends1]

I agree with Bill, that was my thought. If the bowyer says carbon isn't a advantage in his bow design then I would use bamboo. I don't know any bowyer that hasn't found a advantage in a limb design with bamboo. Some designs it maybe huge others maybe just a little.

[katman]

Originally posted by Wheels2:
I shoot carbon core limbs and like them.
I tried both the Carbon Extremes and a couple pairs of Borders.
They are a bit faster

What model border limb has a carbon core?

[wingnut]

The only bow that has a carbon core is UUkaa the rest of us are using foam, bamboo, or wood.

The carbon is in the back and belly material.

The OP asked about Stabil core.  It is a material sold by KK that is from the snowboard industry. It is about .0015 thick and provides torsional stability to a limb but is not made of carbon.

Mike

[njloco]

I just had a foam core carbon limb bow blow up on me, this passed Sunday. Gave all the info to the maker, and unfortunately we couldn't figure out the why, but sh-t happens, my new foam carbon limbs hopefully will be made in around six months, can't wait. Smoothest fastest bow I've ever shot !

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You could write a book about pro's & cons about carbon and what it does for bow performance. Like Bill was saying above, there are many different kinds of carbon lay ups, and types. it's typically a series of pre-preg layers that make up a matrix.....and there are different types of Unidirectional carbon composites too.

Some limb designs use a carbon weave matrix, or a 45/45 lay up using unidirectional carbon. This helps stability a lot, which is a huge part of performance, but adds nothing to the arrow speed. Other limb designs using Uni directional carbon directly on the back of the limbs can increase the speed significantly, but it's a trade off in stability, and will not work on some limbs at all....Uni carbon has less torsional stability than glass by far.

 

Carbon is a real love / hate thing for most bowyers. Very expensive stuff, tricky to work with, and it takes years to come up with the right carbon for the right limb design.....

There are experienced carbon limb builders that have great results.Zipper, Dryad, Border, Centaur, and the list goes on... have got this stuff dialed in nicely. But they've invested thousands and thousands in finding just the right lay up for    just the right limb design.....


Bottom line is that "Performance" isn't measured just by arrow speed alone. Velocity is only one part of over all performance, and not the most important factor at all. There are some very nice bows out there being built with, & without the use of carbon composites.

[bowfanatik]

Originally posted by katman:
 

Originally posted by Wheels2:
I shoot carbon core limbs and like them.
I tried both the Carbon Extremes and a couple pairs of Borders.
They are a bit faster

What model border limb has a carbon core? [/b]

None

[WildmanSC]

The 62", 45#@28" Morrison Cheyenne with Max 1 carbon/foam limbs I've owned and been shooting for 2 years is the sweetest shooting stickbow I've owned.  In 15+ years of shooting stickbows, I've bought, sold and/or traded 250+ recurves and longbows.  The only one I've owned for anywhere near a year is the Morrison Cheyenne.

Bill