why so many longbows?

[longbow fanatic 1]

quote:Originally posted by kennym:
I'm with ya Dennis, mine is a bastardized,hybridized, curvy stick with limb bolts and and wedges,and phenolic tips and low stretch string and all kinds of other stuff that disqualifies it from being a real bow.

         

[Brianlocal3]

Originally posted by TSP:
Mean what you say and say what you mean...I've always liked that little quip.  But with longbows everything always means the same thing!!!  So confusing.  

What we need is a good dictionary.  I just happen to have one.  Looking looking....ah yes here it is.

longbow   1. A wooden bow approximately five to six feet long; 2.  A medieval English bow occasionally over six feet long.

Uh-oh, what happened to the 'longbows are whatever you want them to be' stuff?  There's nothing about the role of personal preferences at all.  Heck, they don't even mention reflex/deflex, locator grips or bolt-on limbs.  

Stupid dictionary.

Problem is they say wooden bows, they don't say anything about fiberglass.....
So it has to be a selfbow or a bow made of wood only too, 60" to occasionally over 72" long

[BWallace10327]

Just so I can join in the fun, I'll admit that my PL II isn't a longbow when someone can prove to me that my Achilles hypalon raft isn't a boat because it isn't fashioned from a hollowed out log.

[tomsm44]

Uh oh.  I decided to double check on the dictionary thing.  The one I looked at said this:  "a large wooden weapon (called a bow) that shot arrows and was used for hunting and fighting in the past."  My R/D is no longer a longbow seeing as I would like to be able to continue using after the past.  Stupid dictionaries.  I think I'll just call it "Fred".

[Brianlocal3]

Here is a definition I found

A longbow is a type of bow that is tall—roughly equal to the height of the user; allowing the archer a fairly long draw, at least to the jaw. A longbow is not significantly recurved. Its limbs are relatively narrow so that they are circular or D-shaped in cross section. Flatbows can be just as long; the difference is that, in cross-section, a flatbow has limbs that are approximately rectangular.
So I'm thinking the ASL is a flatbow

[monterey]

I have always referred to mine (66" to 70") as "American Flatbows" but everybody who looks at them calls them "longbows".  Never heard the term ASL until a couple years ago and was surprised to learn that it was Howard's terminology.  Guess I live in my own small box    

There are so many designs out there now that I'm in the " splitter" camp.  The more we label the various incarnations the more readily we can talk about them in environments like this forum.

Maybe then people would stop calling my bows "Hill" bows, cause they aren't  

[Terry Lightle]

Just something about oozing through the woods with a longbow!
Terry

[TSP]

The key aspect of 'what's a longbow' is that we are losing or have lost the ability/willingness to differentiate between what was and what is.  In effect the original term 'longbow' has lost it's identity.

Longbow definitions offered in threads above (btw, sources would help), when compared to the bows shot today, are a good example of just how far we have departed from the original concept.  

Given all the design changes I see nothing wrong with revisiting and clarifying what a 'longbow' is and isn't, including due respect for both older and newer designs and creating more applicable terms and names where warranted.  It would offer a way to characterize and provide identity to distinct designs, on a fair basis.  Certainly, the 'string doesn't touch the limb when strung' approach so popular at shooting competitions now is patently absurd as a longbow definition since it relates only to a bow's aesthetics and in no way reflects it's construction characteristics or performance capabilities.  Having better terms would make apples to apples comparisons and discussions much easier/more credible.  Having better definitions doesn't mean as much for hunting...critters don't care what they are shot with...but it would mean alot for rational comparisons re bow speed, smoothness, materials, design features, competitive venues and general construction/performance...all popular topics at this and most other sites.  

We shouldn't feel threatened by a better/more specific set of terms for the gear we use.  Why restrict ourselves to one generic term like 'longbow', created centuries ago for centuries-old materials, to describe the diversified and ever-expanding and complex types of 'longbows' we now have?  It's not fair to the old designs OR the new designs.  

Why not give each of the designs their due and be clear about their respective characteristics?  Why bury our head in the sand rather than embrace common-sense?  Why is the 'this is my brother Daryl, and this is my other brother Daryl' approach so attractive to so many of y'all?  WHY WHY WHY ???  Why am I wasting my time writing this?

       

[monterey]

NOT time wasted.  I second that and third It if allowed. You have stated succinctly what I said rather clumsily.

But, be careful, I was once accused of behaving like the "Hill police"  

[tomsm44]

TSP,  I agree with you for the most part.  When I mention my "longbow" around other trad archers, I usually try to clarify by calling it an "R/D longbow".  Around non trad hunters, it doesn't really matter.  I've had lots of people call my recurves "longbows".  The point I was trying to make earlier was aimed at a few of the Hill bow guys that have suggested, on this site and others, that their laminated Hill bow is a longbow but an R/D is not.  In actuality, a Hill style has a lot more in common with my R/D than it does with the original English longbows.  I don't see a problem with calling them all longbows, but a clarrification would definitely be helpful.  We actually already have all the names we need, it's just a matter of people using the full descriptive names instead of just "longbow".  ASL or flat bow for the American style all wood bows, Hill style longbow for the laminated straight limb bows, R/D longbow for the ones with curved limbs, hybrid longbow for the ones with recurve style risers and R/D limbs.  

   

That's why I am getting rid of my Robertsons, thems ain't real longbows. Actually, just want to shoot bows with straight grips, but the semantics are fun get all elity over.  I still do not think of my wife's favorite bow, Lost Creek NAT, as a longbow.  It is not long and it is the best and most forgiving short recurve that I have shot. I prefer the term semi-recurve when the limbs have a bit of reflex gain when loaded. While it does change how the bow will shoot, it does clarify what it looks like.

[highlow]

What's with you longbow guys and stringers? I guess it must be a sin to use one and if you do you're not a real longbow shooter. Is that it?

[ChuckC]

Nope, do what you want to do.  We like to tease each other.
ChuckC

With real long longbows that are really stiff, like my old 96 pound Jerry Hill or my 89 pound 70" Hill, getting them loaded can be real gut buster without a stringer.  Some longbows have very small tips and the cap stringers cover the string grooves.  On Hill Archery bows they generally have a top tip that is long enough so the loader caps do not cover the string grooves.  Generally an ASL or mild R/D will not twist with the push pull like recurves, it is still import to watch that bottom tip to make sure that it is not grinding the ground and that the string is in the grooves properly.  For some this motion is difficult, and it is very handy to have the appropriate stringer or a bow that can make use of a stringer.

[BWallace10327]

What a compliment; I've never been called a real longbow shooter and a non sinner in one phrase.  Thanks.

[Sixby]

Longbows have some benefits. Light in physical weight., great looking, special feel at the shot, simple in design so that they are solid, easy to string in the field, quiet to the max, fast enough to do the trick, very stable and forgiving. I build just about every kind of bow there is except horse bows and when push comes to shove and my life depended on it I would have a longbow, string follow or light reflex or a very light d and r in my hand.
God bless, Steve