GT Ultralights vs Traditionals for durability?

[Gdpolk]

I've been extremely pleased with my aluminum footed 55/75 GT Traditional shafts but I'm thinking about some new arrows.  I primarily hunt small game and hunt in a very rocky area, which translates into I need an UBER durable shaft if I don't want to replace them every weekend from shooting them into rocks.  My return on investments for the footed carbons has me 100% sold on them over wood or aluminum shafting even though wood shafting feels better and is more nostalgic and aluminum shafting is cheaper and easier to tune.  With that said, I like to shoot 100gr inserts and 125gr heads so that my favorite small game points, Judo's, rubber blunts, and broadheads can all be exactly the same weights and shot from the same shafts.  I like to run a higher FOC mass where possible and think the Ultralights would help me bring my weight distribution up a little more than the Traditionals, but am concerned that the thinner shafts may prove to not be as durable as the heavier built Traditionals which are proven to be bomb proof.  Should I give them a try or stick with the tried and true, bomb proof Traditionals shafting and keep pounding the snot out of them to watch them bounce back for another shot?

[Stump73]

Im interested in the info on this to.

[Gdpolk]

For what it's worth, I'm pulling 53.5lbs and shooting a total point weight of 225gr up front. My experiance has led me to believe:  

• BRASS inserts seem a bit easier than aluminum or steel inserts on shafting  
• LONGER inserts seem easier on shafting  
• FOOTING the fronts and tails seems to improve durability of shafting, although the length of footing doesn't seem to matter much.  I foot to the base of the insert and about 1/4" on the rear (sometimes).

I'm really very concerned with durability primarily over the high FOC weight because my arrows take a beat down bouncing off rocks and tree trunks and a properly tuned arrow from either shaft will do its job just as well either way.  With that said, if the Ultralights will work for me I'd love to switch to them just to load the fronts up a little more and get that high FOC weight just a little more for when I'm shooting at tougher animals.

[Caughtandhobble]

Garrett I foot 5575 up front with 1" 2219 and below my nock I use 1/4" 2219. These GT Trad arrows are as close to bullet proof as I have ever seen. The 2219 behind the nock protects from robin hooding arrows as well as it keep the nock in after a rocky ride thru some rough terrain.

One of my hunting grounds are full of rocks. The only arrows that get damaged are from my hunting partners when an arrow is left in a target in a compromising position. For some reason they love trashing arrows, lol.

I know nothing about the GT Ultralights and I will not be looking, I love the GT Trads.  

[Gdpolk]

Originally posted by Caughtandhobble:
Garrett I foot 5575 up front with 1" 2219 and below my nock I use 1/4" 2219. These GT Trad arrows are as close to bullet proof as I have ever seen. The 2219 behind the nock protects from robin hooding arrows as well as it keep the nock in after a rocky ride thru some rough terrain.

One of my hunting grounds are full of rocks. The only arrows that get damaged are from my hunting partners when an arrow is left in a target in a compromising position. For some reason they love trashing arrows, lol.

I know nothing about the GT Ultralights and I will not be looking, I love the GT Trads.    

I foot mine the same but with closer to 2" up front to cover the length of my 100gr inserts.  The durability of the Trads have been astonishing to me and I'm VERY, VERY tempted to stay with the tried and true but curiosity has piqued my interest in the others.  I'm not ready to commit to the ultralights yet, but am a little curious about others' experiences with them.  If I didn't hunt so many small game animals in such rocky terrain I'd just jump on them but durability for me has been a big issue.  It kind of ruins a day to destroy 4-8 arrows in a day.

[Caughtandhobble]

I hear you, like I said most of the arrows I loose are from my friends when I have an arrow hanging during mid-day or at night shooting. I actually made the guys that like to shoot at night some "bomb-proof" arrows with lighted nocks.

[Doc Nock]

I have shot the Entrada (now Ultra light I believe, but cheaper .003)

They've been rebranded... in .400 and footed with 2117 2" "over-footing".

I shot several into rocks... one it flattened the field point, no damage to shaft...

Another, a glancing blow, bent the 100 gr. brass insert INSIDE the shaft, so because I'm anal, I sweat off (I use hot melt brown)the over footing, the insert and checked the shaft...

Under a strong light/magnifier, there was perhaps a 1/8" crack in the end, but with a new brass insert and over footing re-installed, I felt it would be fine, but again, being anal, i have a friend who shoots "Other" types and has a 27" draw so I cut it off for him...

I cut my teeth on the standard 5575's and then went to the ULight for the same reason, to not shoot rebar weight arrows and still increase front weight.

My shafts were around 685 total, 29.5" and shot from higher performance 50# bows.  

I believe the over foot slightly longer then the brass insert helps absorb even that horrific glancing blow...YMMV

[Sapcut]

I have no experience with the Trad shafts but I do use the GT Ultralights quite a bit.  I do very little stumping but I do build them for bombproofness and 31+% FOC.  I am completely satifisfied with their durability.

With a 71# Black Widow and a 830 gr. beefy GT Ultraight, I once shot an iron man target made of....Iron.  I missed the 10 ring and smoked the iron plate.  The only damage was a bent broadhead adapter.

[AZ_Longbow]

look at the GT velocity shafts. i shoot the 300s with 300gr fieldpoint/broadheads.
I also use a 1 inch footer on the front end, have yet to break one even when hitting a brick wall.
now i am sure a skipping hit may bust it above the footer but so far even with my rubber thumper heads not a single broken shaft from impact in a year.

[Gdpolk]

Originally posted by Sapcut:
With a 71# Black Widow and a 830 gr. beefy GT Ultraight, I once shot an iron man target made of....Iron.  I missed the 10 ring and smoked the iron plate.  The only damage was a bent broadhead adapter.

This anecdotal evidence has me thinking they may be worth a shot when footed!  Thanks for the response!

[Gdpolk]

Originally posted by AZ_Longbow:
look at the GT velocity shafts. i shoot the 300s with 300gr fieldpoint/broadheads.
I also use a 1 inch footer on the front end, have yet to break one even when hitting a brick wall.
now i am sure a skipping hit may bust it above the footer but so far even with my rubber thumper heads not a single broken shaft from impact in a year.

Thank you sir!  These may be worth a shot, no pun intended.

[Gdpolk]

Originally posted by Doc Nock:
I have shot the Entrada (now Ultra light I believe, but cheaper .003)

They've been rebranded... in .400 and footed with 2117 2" "over-footing".

I shot several into rocks... one it flattened the field point, no damage to shaft...

Another, a glancing blow, bent the 100 gr. brass insert INSIDE the shaft, so because I'm anal, I sweat off (I use hot melt brown)the over footing, the insert and checked the shaft...

Under a strong light/magnifier, there was perhaps a 1/8" crack in the end, but with a new brass insert and over footing re-installed, I felt it would be fine, but again, being anal, i have a friend who shoots "Other" types and has a 27" draw so I cut it off for him...

I cut my teeth on the standard 5575's and then went to the ULight for the same reason, to not shoot rebar weight arrows and still increase front weight.

My shafts were around 685 total, 29.5" and shot from higher performance 50# bows.  

I believe the over foot slightly longer then the brass insert helps absorb even that horrific glancing blow...YMMV

Thanks a lot for steering me in the right direction.  I'll see about finding a couple at the local bow shop to play with point weight and tuning and see if I can get them flying straight for me.

[Gdpolk]

Thanks to all who have responded.  It seems by general consensus is that when footed, these should be more than durable enough for my needs.  Given that I'll pick some up sometime to try getting a higher FOC mass on my arrows while still retaining a very high durability to meet my stumping/small game (rock bashing) needs.

[Doc Nock]

Head on impacts I'd say you're correct! Glancing blows are a crap shoot...

There was work done on INTERNAL footings made from hardwood dowels, tapered into a parabolic taper (not continuous) and epoxied in behind an insert that as the shaft bent, it contacted the parabolic taper and prevented the snap off... but they were tried commercially and couldn't be economically made...more of a 'by hand' thing, but those who used them said they were bomb proof!

[tzolk]

You should check out Black Eagle Deep Impact arrows. They are so skinny that a gold tip will foot them. They require an outsert which is made by the same company or by Firenock. The outserts and the shaft having very thick walls, due to its "microdiameter", make it a hell of a tough arrow. I'm using the Black Eagle outsert with the Deep Impact.