Toelke Whip Tuning Questions

[danshao]

Hi all,

TL;DR: The whip shoots to the left easily and is not perfectly quiet, what do I do?

Been having a little trouble lately trying to tune my new Toelke whip. From what I've heard so far, the bow *shouldn't shoot the way it shoots for me as of now, and I'm sure this is a tuning problem so perhaps you guys can point me towards the right direction here.. Please bear with my wordiness it's almost midnight and this bug just keeps me from sleep     Also please don't take this as a complaint against Toelke whips as this is just a problem to solve when working out a relationship with a new bow that I'm sure everyone has experienced.


So, the problems first:

1. The bow feels very sensitive to my sight picture compared to the other longbows I have or shot before. The arrows that SHOULD produce a weak flight actually fly pretty stiff when my sight picture has the slightest change to the stiff side (eg. when I don't cant enough to get the nock under my eye etc). In short, it's very easy to shoot to the left, and not just by a little. In comparison, I have shot other longbows (both 1 pc and ilf) that don't have this problem even though that other 1 pc longbow is 5# heavier and tops my comfort zone of poundage, so if anything, the whip should be EASIER to point and control.

2. The bow is not perfectly quiet. It's average longbow-grade quiet with 11 gpp arrows but occasionally I get a metallic noise upon release. Again, compared to my other 1 pc longbow, but not saying either bow is better than the other just what seems to work for me right now.. It could also just be that my ears aren't used to the sound of the wood cored longbow, so please let me know if that's the case..


Here are the details for reference:
a) 62" amo, around 49@29 which is where I draw to, smooth smooth smooth.
b) 7 3/8" BH, a hair over 3/4" nock height
c) 2 small sized nock rings, 1 over and 1 under (before you folks ask lol)
d) gamegetter .500 cut to 29.5 with 3X5" feathers. I tried both 145 and 175 gr heads. The bow seems to like the 175 gr heads but that seems way off from what I collect from spine calculator and experience of shooting my other bows.
e) I shoot 3 under. The bow was tillered for 3 under but with the default setup I constantly got fletching cuts so I moved the nock height to a little over 3/4 and added another nock under as well, which worked and saved me a lot of finger blood   :D  

Let me know if anything comes to your mind or the way your whip is setup, or just that my post is too freaking long   :D  

Thanks and happy holidays!

[Crooked Stic]

Call Mr. Dan and see what he tells you to do.. I would think those arrows would show weak with a 175 head.

[Yingwei]

Danshao, your post is too freaking long indeed.   :D

I found something when I change my moab to a morrison dakota longbow. It may be helpful. When I shoot my moab, I pull the string with the first knuckles of all three fingers. But when using dakota, I must pull the string mostly using the index finger and middle finger. My fourth-finger just touch the string a little, or the arrow will goes left easily. I'm not sure it caused by the design of shelf or just my own problem.

BTW: I'm dantouhou in archerysalon  

[shedhunta]

I have a very similar whip set up and have .500 shafts at 30.5" and 200 grains upfront.  Mine bareshaft like lasers.  You may still be stiff from my experience.  Dan has reccomended people before to bare shaft a few times with a mechanical release and possibly eliminate those false readings due to a bad release?  Not sure I agree but it helped a friend recently.

Good luck.  Do you have heavier points you can try?   Let us know how you make out.

[Rick Richard]

Metallic sound may be shaft hitting the riser and could result in a left hit.

[Jim Wright]

I am a little confused by section e in your post. Are you shooting split-fingers with a bow that is tillered for 3 under? And what do you mean by the "default setup"?

[9 Shocks]

My whips liked weaker arrows.  You are most likely too stiff. Add another 75 to 100 grains and see what happens.

[Bladepeek]

I don't have a whip, but have a 62" d/r longbow that is pretty close to center cut and right at 47# at my draw length. I have to put 200gr points with my 500 spine arrows on a standard insert, so roughly 220gr up front with the same fletching as yours. Anything less and I get a stiff indication at 20 yds or beyond.

[Orion]

If the arrow shelf is cut proud of center, it's likely your arrows are too stiff, as others have pointed out. I second adding more point weight.

The arrow banging off the riser can be caused by a bad release and/or too low a brace height and or/ too low a nock point, but both your brace height and nock point seem to be high enough.  Might be your form.

[danshao]

Originally posted by Jim Wright:
I am a little confused by section e in your post. Are you shooting split-fingers with a bow that is tillered for 3 under? And what do you mean by the "default setup"?

ah thx for pointing out. I just edited the post.

[D. Key]

Call Dan Toelke.  Dan can tell you exactly what is wrong and how to correct it.  Too many variables in your questions that Dan can work out quickly and easily.

Best of luck.

[McDave]

You might want to try a softer strike plate, such as the Martin rug rest.  Even though this seems to move the arrow shaft to the left, due to the thickness of the rug, the arrow shaft will compress the rug when the arrow is shot, due to paradox, so the arrow doesn't come off the rest as far to the left as it appears when the arrow is just laying on the shelf.  The compression of the rug will actually move the POI to the right compared with a leather strike plate, as there is less rebound from a rug rest, and for the same reason should also decrease the sensitivity to slight changes you mentioned.

The Whip is a lightweight bow, and you will have to learn to keep it under control more than you would a heavier bow.  Pay attention to followthrough, and make sure you're still looking through the cutout at your target after the arrow is on its way.  That is just physics; the bow is a pleasure to shoot as are all Toelke bows that I've tried.

[wapiti]

Whip lifer here. Your arrows are too stiff. Try 30"-30.5" with those 175 grain heads. If shooting split finger you may try 5/8" nock height if shooting off the shelf as Dan sets his shelf material. If thicker YMMV.  MAKE SURE bh is to the deepest part of the throat on your grip. ABOVE ALL a clean and consistent release and PUSH with that bow arm! Not judging your form just reminding!

[danshao]

thanks y'all for the good advice! Will try out some heavier tips and watch my form this weekend    will yell back if there's any new findings

[Biathlonman]

I'll be the desenting vote.  I think your weak.  I could never get a 2016 to shoot off any Whip with a 29" draw length.  Try a 100 grain field point and see what happens too.

[GregD]

I am with Biathlonman, I would be tearing sheets of paper in half bare shafting what guys are reccomending

[Biathlonman]

Or if you have a 2018 or 2117 around try that.  I've been through a half dozen or so whips, mostly a Chinook guy now though.

[danshao]

the 2018 is definitely on the stiff side as I shot them thru this whip when I just got it. but to be fair the shots missed to the left for similar amount of distance as these 2016/.500. I think like mentioned before I should definitely watch my form especially the finger pressure thing.

also I might try to grip the bow instead of pushing it like I always do.

boy I have to wait for 3 more days to try out these changes. the days are definitely getting longer lol

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Crooked Stic:
Call Mr. Dan and see what he tells you to do.. I would think those arrows would show weak with a 175 head.

2X....

[tzolk]

Congrats on picking a fine bow. Having owned several and currently owning a Whip,  noise wise, try an SBD string. Bareshaft test your bow. You may find your nock point to be a tad too high since the bow is tillered even. I bareshaft my arrows with the bow vertical, start at a near zero nock height. I think your in the ball park spine wise with a 500 shaft.