Can it be so? Tuning ?

[DaveT1963]

I have shot a lot of Bows over the course of the years and recently just bought a new Cari-bow Taiga EX. Finally got around to shooting this thing and man is it sweet but here's my question. I have always use Gold Tip 5575 for my Bows 50-60 pounds and cut them down to 28.5 inches with about 250 grains up front. These are to weak for this bow.  

I just bare shafted some 75/95 shafts that are 30" long with 250 up front and they are just a tad stiff.  Can this be so?  I feel they should be way stiff for this bow but I cannot get 55/75s stiff enough unless I drop to 100 grain points?

BTW I love this Caribow.... Has static tips and really sends an arrow down range.  It is 54# @ 28 inches and I draw 27.

[ChuckC]

Dave, I think you're gonna find that, although there are ranges for sure, every bow coupled with every shooting style will call for its own match in terms of arrow shafting.  

Lots of us have a 55 - 60 pound bow that bareshafts, say. .500 deflection arrows while another bow (same general weight pull) in the stable needs. say,  .300 deflection shafts with the same or similar front end weights.

Yup, its so.  Don't worry about being different, just get er tuned and go have fun.

[Orion]

Hmmm.  The 55-75s shouldn't be weak cut to that length unless the bow is cut past center, but even then they should work, I think.  75-95s should be way stiff.  

Regardless, I agree with Chuck. Assuming you want to keep the250 grain point weight you have, you might work with side plate thickness to tune the arrow(s), thicker for the 55-75s, thinner for the 75-95s.  I think you'll have more luck with the former.

[DaveT1963]

Thanks..... I know i could add softer shelf material but honestly i like the added weight.... I just found it really interesting this bore liked such stiff shafts

[Friend]

Often times results yield false readings thus leading one in a misguided direction.

One simple test to aid in verifying your results would to be to attach a small piece of velcro to the outside of your existing shelf. Then shoot your bareshaft 55/75 with 250 tip. If the results reveal a stiffened shaft, then the remedy direction is apparent.

Note: actually have two different static tip bows with 3/16" shelves...both bareshaft tuned to 40 yards...the much speedier one, which is 1# less in draw wt required an .080 leather shim to shoot the same 28 5/8" HV350 with 350 gains up front.

[damascusdave]

Some of that is from those nice low strand count strings that Abe includes with his bows...glad to hear you got a Taiga before Abe increased his prices...I shoot .250 spine arrows with my Tuktu EX...I think Abe got those limbs right

DDave

[LBR]

Not unusual for that to happen, and its usually not due to a big difference in performance (a chrony will tell the tale there).  Every set-up has its own personality.

[katman]

I am with Orion, build up the strike plate to tune the 55/75.

[DaveT1963]

Not sure I follow the logic.  Why build up the strike plate to get the 55/75s stiffer.  Why not just shoot the 75/95 with the Javier weight overall.  I know I can get either shaft to fly by adjusting strike plate but why not just use the heavier/siffer shaft?

Think I'm going to order some newer 75/95s s there are .340 as opposed to.300 ones I have. Now if I can find a place that sales one or two states for me to try

[DaveT1963]

Originally posted by Friend:
Often times results yield false readings thus leading one in a misguided direction.

One simple test to aid in verifying your results would to be to attach a small piece of velcro to the outside of your existing shelf. Then shoot your bareshaft 55/75 with 250 tip. If the results reveal a stiffened shaft, then the remedy direction is apparent.

Note: actually have two different static tip bows with 3/16" shelves...both bareshaft tuned to 40 yards...the much speedier one, which is 1# less in draw wt required an .080 leather shim to shoot the same 28 5/8" HV350 with 350 gains up front.

Since i an using beaver tail sight window and shelf, using velcro will make them even weaker spined in my experience.  Sifter sight window material= weaker arrow spine just like building out the sight window

[BigJim]

The arrows are hitting the bow on the way by and kicking out to show weak. Nock left for rh shooter can be both too weak or too stiff.
This can be caused by shafts too stiff, nock too low or shooting three under without having a nock point under the arrow.

I built myself a new bow and for the life of me could not get anything to bares haft properly out of it except full length 500 spine with 300 points. They flew fantastic and even killed a deer with it...but I knew it wasn't right...see, it is 65lbs at my 32" draw and I was shooting a bare shaft at 20 yards. Scratch my head. I shoot three under and had two nock points...the top one being at 3/4".
Finally after shooting this bow that way for a reward weeks, I ran my nock up to 1" just for the heck of it. I o ly made it down to 15/16 " before I was getting perfect flight out of the arrow that should have been working in the first place.


Originally the lighter arrows were bouncing off the shelf just right to give me a perfect bare shaft reading. I new better but wouldn't listen to my self.
Now 15/16" is a little  high of nock set even for 3 under, but with my thick fingers and propensity to put a lot of pressure on my bottom finger it made sense.
Moral of the story. ..keep an open mind and when things don't seem right, they usually are not.
Bigjim

[MnFn]

I probably shouldn't admit this, but it might help you so I will.

When I got my 53# Blacktail recurve I struggled finding the right spine.  Everything that should have worked showed weak, from 65# on up.

In desperation, I talked to Snag and he sent me a half dozen of his own personal arrows  spined at an average of 78#(that is one of the reasons why I am going to miss that guy and his arrows!).  Anyway, I shot them and they worked.

The next year, I was practicing with some carbons- I was shooting a lot- getting ready for the fall.  I remember I started moving out further, about twent-five yards, and I started shooting my 78# arrows with 180 grins up front. Thing was, I was seeing indications that the spine was too stiff.  I could see it in the flight.

Back to the drawing board.  I started shooting different spined arrows working back down. Believe it or not, when I went bear hunting last spring I was shooting 62/63# Sitka Spruce with 160 grn heads and they flew beautifully.

I am convinced when I was shooting heavier and heavier spined arrows I was just putting a band aid on poor technique/ form.  I think I was torquing the bow.

I became much more consistent with the lighter spined arrows. So, I am sold on shooting and just watching the flight and impact of my arrows  as Ken Beck suggested in his video on tuning.

Somebody here, I think Terry said form trumps all.

[Friend]

1. Building out the shelf stiffens the arrow

2. Just temporarily installing a simple piece of velcro over the existing beaver tail shelf would aid in verifying your results. Velcro, while a softer material than beaver tail, still adds approximately .045 in thickness thus stiffening the arrow.

3. If shot 5575 arrows show improvement, then you are moving in the right direction. If virtually no change or even worse, then the arrows setup is too stiff, as I highly suspect. Note: Your comments regarding the desire for additional arrow weight could then be satisfied.

***Simply remove the temporarily attached velcro.

[Bladepeek]

I think form can have an enormous impact on arrow flight. I think I was pretty consistent in my form - not good form, but consistently bad (if that makes any sense). I had arrows that flew beautifully bareshaft or fletched with 200gr points and standard inserts. My form has evolved (improved I hope) some and the fletched arrows still flew fine and my groups got a little smaller. I can only get to 15 yards on my range and then only if I'm wiling to risk a visit from the local police because I have to stand well outside my shop and shoot into it.

Long story not too much longer, I dragged my butt down to the local sports shop with a range where I can get back to a measured 35yds and turned a couple of those bare shafts loose. Way too weak all of a sudden. Fletched did okay, but still impacted a little to the left (I'm a lefty). I started cutting the shaft back down in 1/4" increments and had to take 3/4" off before the bareshafts and fletched arrows started hitting together and straight on to the target.

Nothing changed on the bow; same string, same brace height, etc. I'm afraid the change was all in me.

[KentuckyTJ]

Agree with Big Jim, false reading most likely from shaft hitting the side. Get some foot powder and spray your shelf area to see if its hitting.

[DaveT1963]

Not hitting side plate, just one mark on belly side of bow.  I'll play with it done more but I have good flight with 75/95 shafts and i get the 55/75 to fly great from rest of my bows.  Think it just likes the heavier spine.  Might try some of the. 340 shafts.

[BigJim]

Hey, if it works for you. But it shouldn't and 300s rarely work right for under 60 something lbs .  That would tell me something.
BigJim