Why have draw weights dropped over the past 12 years or so?

[ksbowman]

mbugland, I am an old fart and I see exactly what you are describing and unfortunately it is true. When I worked we used to brag about how much our crew could do in a day, as I retired it was youngsters complaining because on other jobs they weren't expected to work that hard.

[Sean B]

I started with a 75# Asbell Bighorn, that was 26 years ago. At the time I was a strapping young buck of 22 years old. I gradually decreased my weight to where I'm at now at 48 years old. Now my bows range from 58#s to 52#s.

My age, arthritis in my shoulders, and the fact that i just don't need that heavy of a bow were all factors in dropping weight.

[ron w]

All the aches and pains of getting older.....now 40-45#'s just seems to work for me. Dropping down in poundage also helped me cure most of my target panic......it never all goes away.

[M60gunner]

We are not all built alike. Some guys seem to be like the engeryizer bunny at 70 while others can not even get off the chair. i call it "bad code". I look at how many of my school classmates are dead already from cancer and heart trouble.
I still shoot 55#-60# bows at 70 years old. I do have lighter limbs, 45# but just can not shoot them as well. I know I will have to succumb but I am putting it off. Oh, by the way, arthritis in my hands has caused me to stop shooting my ASL.
When I sold it I felt some what defeated by old age.

[Hud]

In the 1950's there were more young people getting into the sport and hunting. Gradually the average age got older. Just look at the demographics for the USA.

[Hud]

I doubt bows are more efficient, or faster. However many found, lighter strings, lighter arrows with higher FOC, aluminum, graphite/carbon arrows and better broadhead made a difference.  Arrow flight is a big factor with near center shot bows, and finally many realized that being over-bowed was not fun.

A number of bows in 1955 and later were capable of shooting wood arrows 190 to 200 fps. Longbows with glass were more efficient than some of the early self bows, and the popularity of Hybrids, and reflex-deflex design in the 1980's made a big difference to some.

[BowHunterGA]

There are many that still shoot heavier weights. However, most that do keep to themselves and don't talk about it much because every time they do they are ridiculed. Shoot with and hunt with what you are comfortable with, accurate with and is fun to you. It has been said that you owe it to the game you pursue to use the heaviest bow you can shoot EFFECTIVELY. I agree with that, contrary to what some will say there is no such thing as too much penetration. Shoot enough animals and there will come a time you are either happier that you had additional penetration or you will wish that you did.

[PICKNGRIN]

I agree with LoneWolf73.  When he mentions the "aging traditional majority".  More oldsters than youngsters shooting traditional.  And most of us did shoot the heavier poundage in years past.

[BWallace10327]

Originally posted by mbugland:
I will dive into this as a young(er) buck in some instances... Or at least I want to keep tellignmyself I am.  The reason the weight is down on average... We are weak!  As a general populous it is pathetic.  Watching kids trickle into the Army over the sat two decades, it is pathetic to see what "strength" is.  
As a 230lbs dude, roll into the field of battle scared that if you go down, nobody is dragging you out alive.... They just can't.  
When I ptr on 100lbs of gear I can look around and find one or two cats that could move me if needed.

Just the basic: push-up, sit-up, 2-mile run is a life changing event for most... Hand them a dumbbell, not to mention a rucksack, and forget about it.  I've watched them try and swing sledge hammers, dig holes.... Hell, change a tire. It's amazing!
This country is doomed I tell you!

But hey, give them a cellphone or an Xbox and they can be anything you want them to be online... Car thiefs, gangsters, Special Forces super stars... They know everything there is to know about doing anything that requires zero exertion or use of muscle groups outside of their thumbs.

Ahhh deep breath.

Yeah, so as Men fade away and digitalis rise into the mainstream.... Draw weights are going to drop to equal one another. Joints fade, shoulders don't hold up, those years of physical labor and abuse of our bodies will put all the us on a level playing field with a bunch of kids that never broke a sweat in their lives. I understand that there will be quite a few exceptions to the rule, kids that were raised right, in the woods, on farms, or God willing found themselves with that friend, grandfather, stepfather... Or even mother sister or whatever in their lives that  raised them up right.

It's just sad.... They drink PBR because it's trendy, not because it's Union. Their skinny jeans, aren't wranglers or 501s.  Flannel shirts that are made of worthless material, "dang barbwire tatto doesn't even go all the way around"

It's just an absolutely weeker generation than I would have ever dreamed possible.  Smarter than crap, absolutely willing to work their butt off not to work at all...

Ya know, I'm sure every generation has said the same of their predecessors.  I'm sure I am weaker than my fathers generation, and he weaker than his.... Wonder what my grandfather said sitting around the campfire.  I remember when I was 10 or 12 I finally got to talk to my grandfather about bows, he use to talk about his bows, I was proud of my 35# Black Bear... But it certainly wasn't the 110# or 175# Hill bows he was shooting. Don't know if that type of raw manliness will ever be common place again. If I walk into a decent deal on. 100# Hill I will buy it just to try and be part the man he was.

Wow... That sparked one hell of a rant I guess.  I'll leave it and let the world enjoy.  Little frustration with the younger troopers these days I suppose. Really hard to build them up to where you want them, thinks it's called a l"eadership challenge"

Retirement will be amazing!

That is an interesting point, but, while I don't disagree entirely, I don't see the decrease in draw weight as some kind of social commentary.  I'd wager that the paradigm of a "hunting weight bow" has changed due to the "big names" opinion.  

For example, Howard Hill shot very heavy bows, and people who did not have the opportunity to find out what works looked to his equipment for guidance.  Fred Bear shot slightly lighter bows and Fred Eichler shoots lighter still. Think of it s a pyramid; These iconic figures create the norm and people who are looking towards them for guidance reinforce their norm.  More people follow the first generation and so on an so forth. WOW A cultural norm is born.

 It is evident that this is happening if a search is done on the "what weight for elk" threads over the past 7-8 years. *Acceptable, recommended weights have fallen sharply, I believe due to the emergence of a new hunting weight norm.  However lazy people have gotten is not directly relevant to the average bow weight, much as shark attacks and ice cream sales increasing simultaneously are proof that cooralation is not always causation.

[Archie]

I like pulling my 68# recurve for exercise.  Just got done doing 3 sets of 10, as a matter of fact.  So when it comes to shooting, I can pull out that bow and shoot it quite well.  But that's just me.

Seriously, though... could it be that in past generations, we were shooting longer distances, and felt the need for more power?  It seems like in older magazine articles, there was a bit of pride in making long shots.  These days, longer shots are almost ridiculed.  Seems like with the move to  hunting deer predominantly from tree stands has changed the hunter's mindset.  Now much of the hunting has to do with the ambush, and when the shot is taken, the hunter has a greater ability to set up the shot exactly as he wants it.  Thus the hunter can feel more comfortable with a lighter bow.

Just a thought.

[Ghost Dog]

Originally posted by mbugland:
I will dive into this as a young(er) buck in some instances... Or at least I want to keep tellignmyself I am.  The reason the weight is down on average... We are weak!  As a general populous it is pathetic.  Watching kids trickle into the Army over the sat two decades, it is pathetic to see what "strength" is.  
As a 230lbs dude, roll into the field of battle scared that if you go down, nobody is dragging you out alive.... They just can't.  
When I ptr on 100lbs of gear I can look around and find one or two cats that could move me if needed.

Just the basic: push-up, sit-up, 2-mile run is a life changing event for most... Hand them a dumbbell, not to mention a rucksack, and forget about it.  I've watched them try and swing sledge hammers, dig holes.... Hell, change a tire. It's amazing!
This country is doomed I tell you!

But hey, give them a cellphone or an Xbox and they can be anything you want them to be online... Car thiefs, gangsters, Special Forces super stars... They know everything there is to know about doing anything that requires zero exertion or use of muscle groups outside of their thumbs.

Ahhh deep breath.

Yeah, so as Men fade away and digitalis rise into the mainstream.... Draw weights are going to drop to equal one another. Joints fade, shoulders don't hold up, those years of physical labor and abuse of our bodies will put all the us on a level playing field with a bunch of kids that never broke a sweat in their lives. I understand that there will be quite a few exceptions to the rule, kids that were raised right, in the woods, on farms, or God willing found themselves with that friend, grandfather, stepfather... Or even mother sister or whatever in their lives that  raised them up right.

It's just sad.... They drink PBR because it's trendy, not because it's Union. Their skinny jeans, aren't wranglers or 501s.  Flannel shirts that are made of worthless material, "dang barbwire tatto doesn't even go all the way around"

It's just an absolutely weeker generation than I would have ever dreamed possible.  Smarter than crap, absolutely willing to work their butt off not to work at all...

Ya know, I'm sure every generation has said the same of their predecessors.  I'm sure I am weaker than my fathers generation, and he weaker than his.... Wonder what my grandfather said sitting around the campfire.  I remember when I was 10 or 12 I finally got to talk to my grandfather about bows, he use to talk about his bows, I was proud of my 35# Black Bear... But it certainly wasn't the 110# or 175# Hill bows he was shooting. Don't know if that type of raw manliness will ever be common place again. If I walk into a decent deal on. 100# Hill I will buy it just to try and be part the man he was.

Wow... That sparked one hell of a rant I guess.  I'll leave it and let the world enjoy.  Little frustration with the younger troopers these days I suppose. Really hard to build them up to where you want them, thinks it's called a l"eadership challenge"

Retirement will be amazing!

Yes, that's a factor. We expect less from ourselves as materials and technology make our lives easier. We are getting weaker and we seem to be okay with it.

[stagetek]

I don't believe it's because today's bows perform better. I believe the aging process, and knowing more now than we used to, is the answer. Back in the day guy's like Bear, Hill, Swineheart and many others all shot bows of at least 65# or more. When I started in the mid-sixties if you didn't hunt with at least 50#, you were under-bowed. The heavier bow you shot, the better it killed, that was the mentality. Over the years we've come to know that razor sharp heads and accuracy trump draw weight. That's good, because most of us that started in that era can't pull bows that "kill better" anymore.

[mbugland]

Bill,
I do get the point.... But I would buy into a multi-paradigm shift.  Sometimes popularity is based on capability, driving the social norm.
Commercializations of specific products drive sales and popularity. 75-100 lbs bows are not mass produced so they are not going to be promoted or popular, because the mainstream cannot achieve accuracy with them(nor does the mainstream want to put in the efforts to do so). The 40,45,55 lbs bows will seek, are available, and get the socialization and support from advertisement/commentary.  It's the cookie cutter idea... And everyone loves cookies!

I am absolutely respectful of those that are conforming to what your body is allowing you to do, I have done some pretty serious damage to mine over the years and have enough bionic parts to give very accurate weather forecasts from spine to tibia.

I do say, judging by the work my elders are able to still do, swinging a 12lb sledge for hours, to what I am capable of and almost 40, to what my 20yr olds are capable of (in general) there is a drastic decline. At 35 I was working pretty hard to keep up with a gentleman twice my age swinging an axe splitting wood, and I'm pretty familiar with doing that. At 37 two 20yr old privates  were struggling to keep pace with me swinging pick axes to dig a parallel whole to mine.

Really the requirement for work no longer exists, so the drive and capability to do so will fade. We have come to know that lower poundage, sharper broad heads and heavier FOC will kill effectively, so there is no longer a need to work to achieve what we once did. Thankfully so at times.... But with that we drift into the same root of hunting discussions, that all the sent locks, attractants, feeds a ad dance do-dads have made us less capable "hunter" while maintaining the same Kill ratios or better than previously achieved by those with more woodsman ship than we may ever see again in our lifetimes. Bringing most of us full circle back to why we chose to hunt with stick and string, that primal urge to truly feel the hunt again. 40 lbs or 100lbs, most are here out of true respect for what God has given us, feeling that deeper connection in the woods with stick and string, than cruising the back road in a pickup with a smoke pole.

God bless everyone of you, every story, every newbie question, everyone who spreads that true love of woodsmanship. I'm far from where I want to be, but you all help me stay focused on getting there. That desire to be back emir see in nature carried me through a lot.

[Steve O]

1. No matter what the bow is marked, if you   watch  , most guys will short draw a heavy bow to about 50#.

2. Better/more accessible information thanks to the Internet.

3. Better/more efficient bows.

4. Better/more efficient arrows, aka carbon/carbon core.

[Hopewell Tom]

For me, it's the arthritis that (seems) to have come on quite quickly. The real pain is in my wrists.

And it totally gags me. Now, I was never a heavy bow shooter, 55#@28" was my first trad bow and my favorite right now is a '66 Grizzly 52#@28", which hurts too much to shoot. I'm at 45#@28" with a '70 Grizzly and am contemplating a 40#er. Pumping the iron doesn't help much as the pain is there as well and I'm not into a drug fix. So be it.
All of the above are legal and capable for Deer, with Bears requiring the 45#er here in Nova Scotia.

I don't feel less manly because of it, I'm still working at 65 running a powersaw in the woods every day. That's manly enough for me. I remember Rod Jenkins (of Safari Tuff)posting a successful hunt pic with his 40# bow. Bit of an eye opener.

As stated, shoot what works, just don't let there be any wheels on it!

[kbetts]

We are much softer as men.  I had no idea we were getting this way until I started coaching high school boys lacrosse.  Young men today are not what they were.  They are so sensitive.....like you literally have to make them understand that instruction and correction does not mean they're in trouble.

Don't even start me on the weight room.  Most are scared to death to even look at a 45# plate.  I'm 5'6", two months from being 40, 140#, and I'm squatting 225, getting ready to hit my bench goal of 225, and I moved 315 while doing shrugs two days ago.  My bows are 59# to 65#.  I try to take care of my body, eat right, and listen to what my body tells me.  I'll drop down when I have to, but right now I like feeling like a man...lol.

[dbd870]

I'm sure there is more than one reason and I think age is certainly one factor for traditional shooters as has been mentioned - however I think the web and the ease of sharing information in general has led to an awareness that you don't need 65# to kill a deer. Sometimes we do learn.

[Joe2Crow]

As mentioned earlier, if you look at the recurves made in the 70s, the most common hunting weight was 40-45 pounds.  Not just for Bear but all of the other manufacturers as well (Shakespeare, Pearson, Wing, etc) with the possible exception of Damon Howatt.  Then in the 80s with the resurgence of (custom) recurves there was a practice of guys buying bows that were way too heavy for them (read: ego).  Try finding an Asbell Bighorn under 60 pounds!  Now, most trad shooters are over 40 years old, egos have given way to enjoyment and the bows are more efficient now than ever before.  At 55, I can still shoot a 60# bow ok but not as well as a 50#er.  I know I will have a problem (mentally) dropping down below a 50# bow - like someone will come pull my man-card. And I would probably tote a 60#er if I chase elk.  See, my ego is alive and well also.  If you can shoot a heavier bow without your form suffering and you enjoy it, more power to you.  But I am amazed at the guys that go kill elk and bear and other big critters with bows <50#s every year.  But enough of my rambling.

[3arrows]

Were the last of the bowhunting breed and getting old.Next time you go to a big show look around.

[Terry Lightle]

Went from 63 down to 57