Why have draw weights dropped over the past 12 years or so?

[Sawpilot 75]

Originally posted by Steve O:
1. No matter what the bow is marked, if you   watch  , most guys will short draw a heavy bow to about 50#.

2. Better/more accessible information thanks to the Internet.

3. Better/more efficient bows.

4. Better/more efficient arrows, aka carbon/carbon core.

x2.. Well said Steve.. Probably the best overall response.

[tracker12]

Originally posted by mbugland:
I will dive into this as a young(er) buck in some instances... Or at least I want to keep tellignmyself I am.  The reason the weight is down on average... We are weak!  As a general populous it is pathetic.  Watching kids trickle into the Army over the sat two decades, it is pathetic to see what "strength" is.  
As a 230lbs dude, roll into the field of battle scared that if you go down, nobody is dragging you out alive.... They just can't.  
When I ptr on 100lbs of gear I can look around and find one or two cats that could move me if needed.

Just the basic: push-up, sit-up, 2-mile run is a life changing event for most... Hand them a dumbbell, not to mention a rucksack, and forget about it.  I've watched them try and swing sledge hammers, dig holes.... Hell, change a tire. It's amazing!
This country is doomed I tell you!

But hey, give them a cellphone or an Xbox and they can be anything you want them to be online... Car thiefs, gangsters, Special Forces super stars... They know everything there is to know about doing anything that requires zero exertion or use of muscle groups outside of their thumbs.

Ahhh deep breath.

Yeah, so as Men fade away and digitalis rise into the mainstream.... Draw weights are going to drop to equal one another. Joints fade, shoulders don't hold up, those years of physical labor and abuse of our bodies will put all the us on a level playing field with a bunch of kids that never broke a sweat in their lives. I understand that there will be quite a few exceptions to the rule, kids that were raised right, in the woods, on farms, or God willing found themselves with that friend, grandfather, stepfather... Or even mother sister or whatever in their lives that  raised them up right.

It's just sad.... They drink PBR because it's trendy, not because it's Union. Their skinny jeans, aren't wranglers or 501s.  Flannel shirts that are made of worthless material, "dang barbwire tatto doesn't even go all the way around"

It's just an absolutely weeker generation than I would have ever dreamed possible.  Smarter than crap, absolutely willing to work their butt off not to work at all...

Ya know, I'm sure every generation has said the same of their predecessors.  I'm sure I am weaker than my fathers generation, and he weaker than his.... Wonder what my grandfather said sitting around the campfire.  I remember when I was 10 or 12 I finally got to talk to my grandfather about bows, he use to talk about his bows, I was proud of my 35# Black Bear... But it certainly wasn't the 110# or 175# Hill bows he was shooting. Don't know if that type of raw manliness will ever be common place again. If I walk into a decent deal on. 100# Hill I will buy it just to try and be part the man he was.

Wow... That sparked one hell of a rant I guess.  I'll leave it and let the world enjoy.  Little frustration with the younger troopers these days I suppose. Really hard to build them up to where you want them, thinks it's called a l"eadership challenge"

Retirement will be amazing!

Sounds like you need a little more time in the woods relaxing:)  Don't need to retire to do that.

[Orion]

I was shooting sticks back in the 60s, and then, bows over 50# were not the norm.  Some folks shot them, but most shot around 50# or less.  That's reflected in the poundages of all the vintage bows one now sees on the auction sites.

For some reason, in the 80s and 90s, bow weight took a jump.  Then 60-70# bows became the norm.  Don't really know why.  Of course, there were no large commercial bow makers then, just small custom shops. Folks who had been shooting a long time probably move up a little, as I did to 60 to 65#, but part of my reason for doing so was to hunt bigger critters like elk and moose.  

I suspect, too, that some of the folks who got started with compounds who switched to traditional thought they could keep shooting the heavy weight and thus the first trad bow they purchased was probably pretty heavy. Lots of those are sitting on the rack now, or up for sale and not selling very well.

As others have pointed, today's equipment's also more efficient so not as much bow weight is necessary.  A lot of that efficiency is due more to improved string material, arrow shafting and bow making materials (carbon) than to changes in bow design.

As I hit 70, I'm dropping down in weight to the low 50s for hunting and mid-40s for targets.  Just not as strong as I used to be.

I suspect that folks who regard archery as a hobby or pleasant past- time don't spend as much time shooting or hunting as those who consider shooting sticks and bowhunting a way of life. And thus, heavier bows are more difficult for them to  shoot, and certainly not necessary to enjoy shooting.  

The pendulum has probably swung back to the light side of "normal," whatever that is, but a lot of folks are also new to traditional archery. With all the information available now, more of them are making the wise decision to start at lower draw weights.

[northener]

I sit here typing with my off hand because of ligament/tendon damage in my wrist from years of overwork. Once healed I could/can outwork most people 30-40 years younger than myself, am I going too, not anymore,period!!!!!

I hopefully will shoot my 40-45# bows with my HONEST draw length of 31 1/2" for years to come.

As you can tell  I believe many claiming to shoot 60-70- lb bows are in reality short drawing. I have not personally witnessed any "heavy" bow shooter do anything other than snap shoot.

[Ghost Dog]

Originally posted by 3arrows:
Were the last of the bowhunting breed and getting old.Next time you go to a big show look around.

I know. I noticed that at Kalamazoo in 2014. There were some younger folks,too.

[Bladepeek]

I'll echo most of the responses so far. People are living longer today, so there are a greater percentage of older guys still shooting. Many of the younger, stronger crowd who would be shooting 60# stick bows are shooting compounds or, like my neighbor, an x-bow.

The latter two are more effective for new shooters and it isn't until they reach the stage where the hunt with its challenges and excitement is more important than the trophy that they are willing to go the trad route. Used to be that was their only option.

[damascusdave]

Not to sound like a broken record but I believe the string is the thing...most of the string fibre development has taken place in that time period...it is pretty simple to get an extra 5 pounds of draw weight equivalent in performance by simply going to a faster string

DDave

[McDave]

Originally posted by Ghost Dog:
 

Originally posted by 3arrows:
Were the last of the bowhunting breed and getting old.Next time you go to a big show look around.

I know. I noticed that at Kalamazoo in 2014. There were some younger folks,too. [/b]

If I look back over my life, I see a trend that makes me glad I was young when I was, and not now.  The generation before mine had it tough with the depression and WWII.  But in the '50's, they were rewarded with good jobs, good retirement plans, and a 40 hour week that paid enough so generally only one person in a family had to work to make ends meet.  My generation had to work a little harder with a little less job security, but we still generally had time for our various hobbies.

After having most of the middle class jobs shipped overseas, a lot of the current generation has to work their butts off at two or more jobs, and they still can't afford a home and other things we took for granted.  Sure, there are higher paying jobs for professionals with credentials, but the work week for those jobs starts at about 60 hours and goes up from there.  In my opinion, that's mainly why you don't see as many young folks at archery tournaments or backpacking in the mountains these days.

[Bowwild]

I think Orion and others have explained this question well. I also started in the 60's. I knew a dozen or so other archers (all recurve shooters). All but two were older than me. For the most part we didn't know the draw weights each other shot (no forums back then). I wasn't aware of anyone shooting higher than low 50's. I was shooting mid-40's at age 16.

Frankly, among the guys I hunted with the archer's form, sharpness of broad heads, and shot choice decisions were considered more than the equipment the archer shot.  We were also camouflage fanatics. Dull clothes, tree bark, or WWII or Nam tiger patterns,  face paint, gloves, etc. I even remember spraying my Bear razor heads flat black except for the very edge.

Like Orion described when a bunch of folks switched to the compound one of the attractions was to bump up 10 pounds or more in max weight because of the let-off. In fact, some thought you should go higher in max draw weight to get a "clean" release with the let-off. Of course almost everyone shot with fingers back then (tabs and gloves). So, I went from 45# recurve to 60 pound compound so, at 33% let-off I'd still be around 40# at release.

As let-offs increased so did draw weights.

Then, I think just like Orion wrote, some compound guys started returning to recurves and kept up the draw weights.

I also think a few well known bowhunters, who also made bows, were shooting heavy draw weights and others followed.

Sadly, I think some have target related issues and can't get to full-draw. So, to get some performance out of their short draw they shoot heavy. Not everyone of course. Surely there are lots of heavy bow shooters (60#+) who have terrific form.

When you read about, know about, or have done it yourself-- put arrows completely throughs multiple whitetails with mid-40# draw weights, why punish yourself?

I keep a couple bows or sets of limbs actually, that will exceed (slightly) 50# at my real draw length of 26" just in case the moose dream comes true.

[Bobaru]

kbetts writes: "We are much softer as men. I had no idea we were getting this way until ....  "

I experienced the same in South Africa.  The South Africans have a very different mental image of what it is to be a man.  Call it "macho" if you want, though I suspect that's too simplistic.  Seems to me there are cultural imperatives at work.

Frankly, our cultural imperatives are changing.  I laughed at the "metros" in a Dallas restaurant, having expecting real Texans.  But, then, I wonder what the South Africans think of us ...  me?  

It's easier to change the culture of archery when the general culture goes the same direction.  And, you see Eichler shooting 54# at moose.  Look at Ted Nugents over in the compound area who insists on 50# bows and less.  Hey, I can be a tough guy like Ted without working up to a 70# bow.  

And, face it.  Most are shooting whitetail.  Who needs 70# for that?

I'm humored by talk of Fred Bear shooting 65#.  True enough.  But, I'm amazed that he shot Cape Buffalo with 65# as well!!  

Anyway, interesting discussion.

[MnFn]

My first hunting bow was 40#.  That was in 1965, my second now was a 45# Bear.  My dad's bow was 56#. Shot compound for two years, then went back to recurves.

I  started shooting a 38# target recurve at league.  Everybody else was shooting compounds in the league. I think that may have done more for my shooting accuracy than any other single thing.

I jumped up to a 60#longbow and  60# recurve.  Big jump- probably too much, but remember I was shooting a full league with the 38, every week.  So I started out shooting 5 or 6 shots a night with the heavy bows, at home.  Recurve worked pretty well, longbow- not so much.  That was in the 90's.

About ten years ago, I moved down to low to mid 50# bows and I shoot those a lot better.  I am now 63 years old, and feel pretty confident with my 53# Blacktail or my 55# Tall Tines for that matter.  If I had to drop down to 45 for deer, I would do that.  But I shot an average buck with my 40# bow and was not
Impressed with the penetration so for that reason I think my minimum for deer is about 45. Just my opinion.

[dirtguy]

Well just consider the change in employment in the US during the 20th century.  Early on, most people were farmers.  Who needs to go to the gym when you work on a farm?  I grew up next to my uncle's farm and put several thousand bales of hay on the truck, then in the barn, then in the manger, shoveled the gutter many times, carried milk pails to the milk room, etc. etc.

Now many of our jobs involve sitting at a desk all day, and our upbringing generally doesn't call for physical labor.  Its no wonder people shoot lower draw weights.

[michaelschwister]

My first hunting bow was 48# and the heaviest I had heard of among friends was 55#.  That was 1974. Over the years I worked up to and was shooting 77# as my primary bow and could handle well over 100#.  I am now in my mid fifties and get harassed for shooting 60# now when attending ETAR.  I still shoot 65-75# best while hunting.  My personal opinion is the folks who shoot alot of 3D are in this death spiral of draw weight.  We now see folks talk about 30# as enough for big game.  This is illegal in most states.  I think most folks would be able to draw in the 55-70# weight range just by keeping physically fit. I personally know folks over 65 years of age with major overuse injuries that still shoot north of 60#. To each their own, but it would be nice if folks stop berating those that wish to and can shoot heavier.

[Bowwild]

We're not the last of the bowhunters.  

Archer/bowhunter numbers have increased from 7 million (U.S.) in 2001 to 21.6 million in 2014. I know where 9.5 million of the new ones have come from.

Archery and bowhunting have never had a brighter future than now.

[acolobowhunter]

I am currently 67 yrs old and have been shooting a 70# recurve for over 40 years.  There will come a day when I have to back off the weight.  This is just the weight I am use to, but the lighter bows with the improvments in materials are probably just as effective.  I really hate to see someone "over bowed" as it effects their accuracy and their interest then drops if they can't improve.

[jackdaw]

Considering 20 yards or so is how far I limit shots on game to.....mid to upper 40s is MORE than adequate to get the job done..

[jackdaw]

Considering 20 yards or so is how far I limit shots on game to.....mid to upper 40s is MORE than adequate to get the job done..

[JEFF B]

the older ya get the more pain ya have so down go the draw weight's i shoot a 49 to 50 # horse bow and thats plenty for me.    if ya can't kill a deer with a 45 to 50 ya aint going to kill it with a 60    just saying

[Flinttim]

It's just a different world guys. Back in our youth if someone said they were going to the gym it meant they were going to a basketball game , now it's something else. We lead sedentary lives. They call it "Progress". My first bow was a 65 # K Mag. I could no more pull that thing today than I could fly to the Moon. 10 years ago I routinely tugged on a 55 pounder now I'm at 48-50 #. I could pull a 55 # for deer hunting but if it's a bit nippy out the old muscles would never let me hit anchor.I agree with most in that modern materials and technology have made a 50 # equal to a 55 back in the olden days.A good sharp broadhead will go all the way thru a deer from a 45 # bow. There are exceptions of course. I have a friend who at 74 years of age can still draw and shoot an 80 pound bow, but he's one of those freaks of nature.(short , no neck). I've got one recurve, though it's a 51#, has real early draw weight, and that thing will flat wear me out over a 40 shot 3D course.One things for sure, if I lay off my bows for even a couple of weeks it takes a while to build back up to them.

I started with 50# nearly 20yrs ago. I still shoot 50# today. I shoot a lot, and if I go heavier, I just can't control it after a handful of shots.

Bisch