Woodsman Heads With A Lightweight Set-Up

[huskyarcher]

Hello fellas, just some off-season fat to chew on here.

I shoot a #42 Omega Imperial mainly, and was wondering about a switch to woodsman heads? I have absolutely nothing but the up-most confidence in my set up, and will not hesitate one anything with it, but i have always used 2 blade heads. This past December, i had a bit of trouble with blood trails and pigs.  

BUT, after two frustrating blood trails i am pondering on switching to the woodsmans but i was wondering your thoughts? I know i wouldnt have any trouble with deer and woodsmans but i have at least two more pig trips in the next few months with a decent chance of runnning into a good sized pig, and i would rather not shoot a pig and it turn around and laugh at me.

So again, i am not questioning the weight, i am convinced i never need more poundage unless i go after elk, just questioning a switch to a 3blade, specifically the Woodsman.

What say ye? Can i make the switch?

Dalton

[Yohon]

Dalton, I shoot the same poundage as you and hunted all fall with the 175 gr VPA 3 blade(very woodsman like) and was very happy with them on critters and the blood trails that went with it. I also killed a big doe with a big ol Snuffer and after seeing the penetration and damage/blood trail Im not to worried about penetration any more    I'm heading down to see Irv next week and am hunting with the 3 blade VPA if that tells you anything......

[Terry Green]

big hogs with shields are much like elk to penetrate ....nothing like a deer.  yes....there is a soft spot on them but is a small target and a lot of the goodies are behind the shield.

have u seen the shield clip on the shot placement for hogs thread?

most hogs don't have shields to that degree but you might happen upon one.

what is your draw length and arrow weight?

[huskyarcher]

I have saw that thread Terry, and have saw a #240 boar with one like it firsthand in TX, that shield is exactly what concerns me. I know on a sow or a smaller pig i would be fine, but like you said i might happen on one like that.

I actually draw 29" (the bow is 40@28) I have weighed it at the shop and it is 42.2 at 29, and my arrow weight is right around 525-550gr.

[Terry Green]

well.....if you use a quiver that let's you change arrows easy you could take both and use according to need

[Blaino]

...

[huskyarcher]

Great idea, thanks for the help, i know you are the king of swine around here!

[Orion]

Are you saying you're making two holes in the critters and not getting good blood trails? Then a three blade will likely give you a better blood trail, if you can push it all the way through the critter.

On the other hand, if you're not pushing the two-blades all the way through the critter, the chances of doing so with a three blade are even less.  If that's the situation, your upmost confidence in 42# on pigs, particularly good size pigs, may be misplaced.

[9 Shocks]

At most stick bow ranges, say 25 yards and in...I think you are good.  I have shot deer with a 3 blade vpa and woodsman 45lb 27" draw and got 2 holes everytime.  I stick with 500+ grain arrows too.  Hogs im not so sure about because I just dont hunt em enough.

[huskyarcher]

Yes sir, the 31.75" arrow buried to the label on a broadside shot, i cant see any way there wasn't two holes. Didn't find the pig to prove it however, just going by what i saw at the shot.

Yes the blood is what i am looking for, honestly i am leaning toward putting on a string tracker as well, just because of the December debacle. Idk what it is about pigs, but i have never had one bleed much, which is why i am thinking another blade will help.

[pdk25]

If you are wanting better blood on the ground, a Simmons head or 3 blade like the woodsman should help, within reason.  Big hogs are pretty variable, and I have had hogs that were well hit put buckets of blood on the ground, and others barely a trickle.  A string tracker isn't a bad idea, and I have considered it myself.  Hopefully others will be able to chime in on their experience with a setup like yours with woodsman heads.  From all I have read, it probably won't be that much difference in penetration from a two blade unless you hit bone, in which case you are in trouble anyway.  I am glad that you have great confidence in your setup.  I would echo Terry's sentiments, in that a heavily shielded hog is general considered to be tougher to penetrate than an elk.

[wingnut]

Terry has a good idea with carrying both heads in your quiver.  I've experienced the same results with pigs.

A couple of years ago I hunted on a friends place in south texas.  He'd been running a bow only pig outfit for over 10 years.  When he saw I was shooting two blade heads he told me about his study.  Over the years he kept records on recoveries and loses.  He said that with a 3 blade he had over a 50% better chance of recovering a pig then with a 2 blade.  That was enough for me and I switched to WW for pigs.

Mike

[Tajue17]

I take advantage of that also, I usually have two different two blades and one 3 blade and then a blunt or judo.

[Terry Green]

yep... I do it in the winter time when I'm deer hunting ....I usually  drop down about seven pounds in weight in the colder months and I still take tDelta 4 blades but if I'm in hog territory also I have a couple of Wensel woodsmans or no mercy 4 blades in my quiver just in case I run into a bruiser hog

[olddogrib]

Hi Dalton, you definitely had my attention there for a second....thought you were implying that some of that Smokies "free range Russian" stock had migrated into the Promised Land, lol! I was like..I'm in!

[huskyarcher]

Tradgang never ceases to amaze me, Blaino is going to send me a sample of some of the WW originals to try on some pigs, he wont let me pay him either. Thanks again Blaino! Folks like him make this place special! Il be sure to pass the amazing generocity along.

[katman]

Originally posted by huskyarcher:
Tradgang never ceases to amaze me, Blaino is going to send me a sample of some of the WW originals to try on some pigs, he wont let me pay him either. Thanks again Blaino! Folks like him make this place special! Il be sure to pass the amazing generocity along.

   

[Terry Green]

I will also say this...on have seen the wensel woodsmans out penetrate SOME 2 blades in 3 different target mediums.

[olddogrib]

I'm sure you're probably aware of this, but I think you'd definitely want to turn the WW needle tip into a chisel for hogs.  Simple to do on a file while truing up the edges.  WW's were my head of choice before I went back to 2-blades.

[beaunaro]

Dalton,

I have a lot of guys who hunt with me that use the Woodsman head,or similar to it, including the Langer group. But most of these guys are shooting 60# bows too.

I'm not an expert but after attending the Compton seminars put on by Dr. Ed Ashby, I upped my arrow weight to 570 grains including head also using a 100 grain brass insert so most of that weight is out front.

I use the single bevel Grizzlys from Bill Dunn, which are 165 grains including the adapter for carbons, and believe a lot in the studies done by Ashby about heavy weight up front.

I use 53#-55# bows at 28" bows...and my draw length is 27",so I am right around 50-53#s at my draw.

There are other single bevel 2 blade heads on the market, but Bill's are the most economical and I have found them to be pretty tough. Get a KME and they sharpen best.

Bill makes a wider size head than the one I use which would make a bigger hole, and you are right about hogs not bleeding well, so two holes...one near the bottom of the animal is really good if you can make it happen.

I personally witnessed Bill Langer anchoring a 300# plus hog this week, his biggest to date, on one of my hunt sites, and he likes to hit them a little higher near the entrance, quartering away, and have the broadhead exit near the offside shoulder passing thru all the vitals he can, but leaving an "out hole" lower so the blood can drain out as the animal runs away.

This type of hit, angling slightly (not sharply) down gives you a blood drain hole and sort of comes naturally because you are at least 10 feet higher than your target.

I'm not advocating shooting straight down at the critter or anything close to that...just slightly down.

Even on a deer, or other critters, a broadside double lung hit,(esp.a high high double lung hit) will require the diaphram area to fill with blood before it starts leaking, so in talking with Bill, his method seems to make a lot of sense. sense.

You know him well...so give him a call to make sure I have all those details correct.

He made the exact same hit on another smaller pig this week too.

I think some good heads for a lite weight set up would be a big wide Simmons Treeshark or a big Grizzly single bevel two blade.

Read Ashby's report about how a single bevel will tend to split bone and what he thinks about the advantage of a single bevel two blade.

It's a lot of technical reading but it is backed up by a lot of testing thru animal hides into animal bones...pretty realistic. I know a lot of folks put a lot of weight into what his studies have found.

And...you are a young, strong guy...

If you draw with back tension, and use your rhomboids, you should be able to pull more than 42#s should you desire.

Not telling you what to do here, as once again, I do not want to come off as an expert, just offering some insight on what I have seen.

Call Langer and see what he thinks.

I also have a lot of faith in what Terry Green is saying...he has killed a bunch of hogs as well.

Some guys have had really good luck with three blade heads, and it sure makes sense to carry both.

Best Regards,

Irv

Irv