Why such short distances?

[Jakeemt]

I have read a number of threads with one being current that mentions trad hunters not being able to shoot accurately past 20 yards. I wonder how this myth got started. All the greats I read about like Pope and Young, Fred bear, Jack Howard, the great Howard Hill and the Thompson brothers were all proficient at very long distances. What's more anyone can be, with practice. I can put 6/6 arrows in a nine inch circle at 30 and 4/6 in the same circle at 40. For some reason out past 50 it gets really bad and I am luck to get 1 or 2 of 6 but, I'll keep practicing!  I am not trying to brag either I would consider myself of average athletic ability with no crazy hand eye coordination either. It's just practice. What's more I have found that when I really made an effort to get proficient at longer distances, my shooting inside 20 was much improved. It really does ingrain a higher quality of form into your shooting. For anyone who thinks they cannot hit past 30 reliably get out and practice you and your bow are way more accurate than you give yourself credit for!

Now that being said longer range shots on live game targets are somewhat controversial. The distance you should take shots will be up to the individual hunter, his skill, knowledge of his prey, and self imposed limitations. I would never advocate that everyone should take long shots at game anymore than I would say nobody should. That's just too personal and subjective.  The only reason for this post is to let other people know that if you push the boundaries of your range you will see a substantial improvement at all of your ranges especially the short ones.

I would really enjoy reading people's take on this but, please please guy's be civil with each other. Remember the order of the day at TG is expect to be respected. Different idea's and opinions are important but, let's not let this thread descend into nastiness and name calling.

[Bladepeek]

I think part of the reason is that you mentioned legendary "greats" of archery. Most of us are not "great" or these others would not stand out the way they do.

I also believe its one thing to be shooting at a target at known distance in the open and somewhat different, at least for many of us, to be shooting in brush at an animal that may not hold still quite as long as that target does.

I'm not saying no one  is capable of making the shots and if they can honestly say they are capable, than more power to them. I believe what you said is that you are likely to wound an animal at 40 yards 1/3 of the time. I want my odds to be a lot better than that if I'm shooting at a live animal as opposed to a foam animal I can shoot at more than once if necessary to get the hit I want.

We all need to be able to live with ourselves and, maybe its an ego thing, but I want to say I am pretty darned sure of my shot at the distances I choose to shoot at. Just my $.02 worth.

[Terry Green]

it probably got started because when someone can't do something they don't want to accept the fact that it can be done by others.

[Jakeemt]

Blade I agree with you. My personal limit on game animals is currently 30 yards. However, even that limit has limitations like, no obstructions, plenty of time to set up, early in the season with no cold muscles or bulky clothes, ect. This post wasn't as much about hunting shots as the accuracy of the bow in general. Though hunting ethics and shots is an important part of the discussion.

[Bladepeek]

Please don't misunderstand me Terry. I'm not saying that because I can't do it that others can't either. I've seen videos of you shooting, whereas you have not seen videos of me shooting    

I would not attempt the same shots you're capable of because I could not make them. I think what I was trying to say is that MOST of us are average shots. The above average shooters are certainly capable of stretching ranges and the below average shots should probably stick to only very close shots.

I suppose I was, in a sense, agreeing with the OP in that we should not be criticizing anyone for seeking to extend his ability. At the same time, we certainly should not encourage people to shoot at game beyond their ability.

[WESTBROOK]

They're are a lot of people out there that think that since they'll never take a hunting shot past 20, they dont practice past 20.

I agree with you Jake, if you want to be good at 20, practice at 30, to be good at 30 practice at 40 and so on.

[Terry Green]

Good Lord Ron.....that wasn't directed at you....

Just observations of years running a message board.

I shoot a LOT of 3D, and I hunt a LOT!!!! Of all the traditional shooters I know that shoot regular wood bows off the shelf, I would be willing to bet 90% of them cannot shoot 6/6 arrows CONSISTENTLY in a 9" circle (and I do know a few pretty salty shooters too). If you can, more power to you, but the percentage of folks who can is very, very low!

I also agree with you that anyone should practice longer range shots, and that as proficiency is gained at the longer ranges, the shorter ranges a do get easier.

Bisch

[Archie]

I really like taking long shots at 3D targets.  But I learned the hard way that great 40-yard shots at deer end up hitting nothing but thin air.  I just can't get that arrow there fast enough.

[Cwilder]

I shoot a bunch also out at 50 yards and further
Just because I can at a target doesn't mean I will in the woods
When you get in a hunting situation it's totally different on a live animal. I like my shots under 20 yards 90% of my shots have been under 15 yards.
I like them close    
I would imagine that the greats also had a high wounding rate as well

[threeunder]

I think you answered your own question with your statement.

You mentioned trad hunters and then went on to say that long range shooting on game animals is controversial...that is the ethical question.

We are talking about taking an animal cleanly and humanely.  Not wishing for one of our 40 yard shots to find its mark.

I believe trad archers who shoot targets and trad hunters are two different breeds.  It is definitely a different mindset.

Frankly, and this is just me, I have a problem with anyone who shoots at an animal at 30 yards.  Less than 20 (under 15 is better) is much better and is much more in line with what most people can be capable.

I shoot a lot during summer at 30 to 35 yards.  I would never shoot at an animal at that distance, but it does make me much better at 20 and under.

Just my 2 cents.  And it's worth exactly what you paid for it.

LOL....I just enjoy this sport so much.

Ken

[Daz]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
it probably got started because when someone can't do something they don't want to accept the fact that it can be done by others.

Well said Terry.

[drewsbow]

heck I love close shots , a deer inside ten yards is dead and don't know it . I do believe however in practicing longer ranges out to fifty yards and more , i find it makes you concentrate more on form and thus become a better shot at those close ranges . i have seen some really fine shots out there and they work at it for sure. Drew

[McDave]

The west is generally more open country than the east, and perhaps mule deer in general are not as skittish as whitetails, although I'm sure there are individual exceptions.  In our typical 3D tournaments, trad archers shoot at distances from really close to 50 yards.  Most people I have talked with train to take shots at deer out to 30 yards.  I'm sure really good shots would push that to 40, but that's about the limit, although one of Rick Welch's videos shows him taking an animal at a distance that was later measured to be 50 yards.  I practice just about every day at all distances from really close to at least 65 yards, so I won't feel uncomfortable taking 50 yard shots in tournaments.  I'm in the 30 yard bunch, as far as shots at game animals are concerned.

[TradBowyer]

There are a few select few who can put a bullet in a terrorist head from 1000 yrds...but most rifle hunters can't hit accurately at 300 yrds. Picking out a couple shooters out of thousands of trad shooters doesn't really equate. There are always people who will excel but most people will not achieve that. I've seen excellent shots and terrible shots....what makes me laugh is these people who would rather miss a complete deer at 15 yrds by being truely instinctive rather than work out a system where they can actually hit something

[Jakeemt]

Guys I make no judgements on self imposed distances. It's just too subjective. one of the biggest factors is animals heck I have had squirrels dodge arrows matrix style at 5 yards! There is big diffence between moose and white tails, pigs and ground squirrels, rabbits and yotes know what I mean? I just really wanted to shed some light on the perceived lack of accuracy at longer distances. A trad bow can make consistent hits at a distance and it will only make you better up close.

[Jakeemt]

Originally posted by TradBowyer:
....what makes me laugh is these people who would rather miss a complete deer at 15 yrds by being truely instinctive rather than work out a system where they can actually hit something

No need to be rude man. Everyone has different systems that work for them. Can we try and avoid negative comments about other bow hunters. This thread could be cool lets not get it shut down with negative comments.

[ron w]

I never liked long shots......that being said since stumping with the crew I shoot with now they have pushed me to try longer pokes.......and I like it!!! It has made me a much better shot over all. I still want that 5-18 yard shot while hunting but pushing ones self during practice is a good thing!

[ChuckC]

Yeah, I guess I should start gapping or some such so I can actually hit something, or maybe sights, or sights and a release,  maybe a compound, or wait..... a compound cross bow with a scope !  Yeah, that's it.  Then I can hit way out there too.  Or maybe just get a .270.

Or I can just do what I am doing, have fun, and get close to the critters I shoot at.
ChuckC

[BWallace10327]

I'm a big fan of 2 ranges- in and out of.  I am also a big fan of heart/lunging a deer and THEN whipping out my lazer range finder to discover I've made a 40, 30 or 12 yard shot.  The distance doesn't matter once the noepinepherine kicks in because the spot I'm going to hit doesn't change size.