Arrow Selection

[tsimo25]

Hi,

  I have a question about selecting arrows, specifically shaft material.  Let me start by saying that I understand the importance of matching spine to draw weight and the impact that this can have on shaft integrity.  

Let me step back a sec here and share what is prompting this question.  I am close to finishing my most recent bow, the weather is getting nice and my son is wanting to get out and get some practice in and passing on the bug to me.  I went out to local retailer and picked up some new carbon arrows.  Doing what I thought was the right thing I went on-line and was gonna do some testing to make sure that what i took home met factory specs.  In doing this I came across more information than I wanted.  Some of that was discussions on exploding shafts.  

I returned the shafts the same afternoon I bought them.  The videos set loose a memory or two from my younger days when i played tons of golf.  We would routinely see graphite shafts that would explode.  This could have happened due to a scratch on the outside weakening the structural integrity.  But it also happened with new products fresh out the box.  In those cases after the failure you could see a small issue on the inside of the shaft, impossible to see or hear prior to the failure.  

So here's the question.  Do wood shafts have the potential to explode the same way?  How about aluminum?  Is there protective gear that can be worn to mitigate this risk(I did see a kevlar glove).  My stomach turns every time I think of my 8 year old experiencing this type of failure.

Can anyone recommend a good source for wooden shafts?

[Roy from Pa]

They all can explode.

[tsimo25]

Are some more prone to issues than other?  I have not been able to find examples or article on wood and aluminum but thought this group would have some collective wisdom to try to tap into

[Roy from Pa]

Carbon will be your strongest arrow.

[AZ_Longbow]

flex the carbon shaft after every shot, if you do that the chances that they will break is almost non existent. wood has a chance, have had a few splinter. aluminum just bends in my experience.
i shoot carbon almost exclusively now.  i flex every time i shoot after every shot no matter what my arrow hits or lands on.

[tsimo25]

Is twisting something that would help?  I helped to sometimes catch a creaking sound in a golf shaft but that is longer?

[M60gunner]

I think most guys flex their wood or carbon arrows if they hit something hard like a rock. Alum just bends. If the alum shows a kink it is toast, it will break usually when your trying to straighten it. I have had carbon break three ways, in half from a slap shot on large log, nock end cracks and nock gone. Smash the point end into rock which either breaks the shaft or jams point into shaft.
Wear an armgaurd, check any arrows that missed the backstop.

[tsimo25]

I worry most about the arrow exploding before it leaves the string.  I good thick leather armgaurd sounds like a valuable piece of equipment for more than just string contact indeed.

[Bladepeek]

Just out of curiosity, what weight bow are you shooting and what arrows did you have? Unless you got them from a shop that specializes in trad bows, I would be willing to bet they were much too stiff anyway.

[tsimo25]

It was at a local hunting/fishing supply shop.  My son's bow is 25lbs and mine is 45lbs.

[MnFn]

I had a POC wood arrow shatter into pieces at the release.  Nothing wrong with POC, I just didn't check it  after a questionable hit on a target.

I always wear a thick leather arm guard, maybe it did save my arm, but I had a good scratch across the back of my bow hand. Fortunately, just a scratch but could have been much worse.

I still primarily shoot wood arrows, btw.

[FlintNSteel]

I have been shooting for nearly 50 years.  Wood, fiberglass, aluminum, carbon.  From target arrows to heavy compressed cedar and everything in between.  I do a fair amount of stump shooting which can be punishing on arrows.  

In all that time, I have had one arrow explode and that was a carbon I had already killed another deer with.  I had cleaned and checked it thoroughly and everything seemed OK, but when it was shot the next time it went out in pieces.

When I was a teenager and had no money to speak of, I used to salvage wood stump shooting arrows that split diagonally on the grain on a very hard stump hit and glue them back together with Elmers wood glue...then shoot them some more. Never even had one of those explode.  Generally shot around 50 lb bows back then.

Net is, it can happen, but I think it's extremely rare.  If I were to make a bet, I would say aluminum would have the least chance...carbon the most.

[SKITCH]

When I first started learning the bow I stopped In at a great shop in Little Rock. Although they carried wheels they were focused on Trad and had THE most longbows and recurves that I have ever seen in one place. It was a great place to try A few different types of bows.  AnywAy, it's always stayed with me, the owner had a few pictures taped to the counter of guys who had arrows explode on them and the pieces ended up embedded in their hands.  Some were pretty gruesome looking!    His point was to teach people that you have to pay attention to the arrows your shooting and make sure they are good for your bow.  Definitely made an impression on me!    Have not seen or heard much about this type of actual injury since then but sure got the point across.  

If you want to see it in action and some pretty cool super slow motion of arrow shafts reaction upon release check out this video.  Most guys that have been around here awhile have seen it but maybe some of the new guys haven't.   Daniel is a Tradganger and a pretty interesting guy.  He actually intentionally explodes one on purpose if you keep watching...with the proper safety gear of course.   Fun to wAtch.
 

[tsimo25]

Wow that is a great video!  Thanks for sharing. Next time out I will begin the process of teaching my son how to check and what to look for.  The arm  guard is now a given and I am thinking aluminum and wood.  Even when wood breaks it does not seem to fragment into hundreds of tiny fiber splinters.  How about hand protection?  And for spine always lean to the stiff side?  

From a form perspective I noticed that most traditional archers cant the bow, this seems to also protect the bow hand some.

[Possum Head]

He's more apt to job a field point in his eye or get hit by a texting teen. Does this help?

[tsimo25]

LOL  so true!  I have been working on it for a couple years but for now he would rather be out shooting his bow or sanding his new one than playing a video game.  I am thankful to archery for being a pathway to building a more solid connection to him.

[Bladepeek]

I do think safety warnings are a good and necessary thing, but I also think we get carried away a bit too often. I'm not saying arrows won't shatter. They obviously can. In that video above, if its the one I think it is, he demonstrates what can happen if you shoot a GROSSLY underspined wood arrow - the one that looks like a piece of cooked spagetti wrapping all the way around the bow?

I've seen guys shoot an arrow into a live tree and never check the arrow before shooting it again. That's just plain foolish and dangerous. Bounce one off a rock and not check it? Crazy!

On the other hand, I can honestly say I have never had a carbon arrow explode on release (or, for that matter, even on impact). Granted, I'm shooting light weight bows (47# and under)but several of my buddies shoot much heavier bows and the only arrows I've seen blow up were cedars that wrapped themselves around a tree on the way to the foam animal hidden behind the tree.

I'm sure people have put knitting needles in their eyes by accident and I know from experience that tennis can tear up an ankle pretty badly, but I would rank archery as one of the safest sports around.

[tsimo25]

So on target but maybe to the left a bit, is there a design of a DIY spine tester that is recommended?  The $150 + price tag is a bit steep for me at the moment for a retail tester?

[tsimo25]

I have been using a board with my arrow rests 26 inches apart and a 2lb weight hung dead center.  I use a ruler mounted on the board to measure deflection.  It seems to work but I want to make sure I haven't missed anything.

[Bladepeek]

I would think the quick and dirty way to go would be to get an arrow flying well out of your bow and then take it someone who has spent the $150 and have him measure it. Then you will know what spine you want.

So far I've seen no description of the bow or what arrow you are currently shooting. In the first post, it sounded as though you were building your own bow, which I'm guessing is going to be a self bow. I doubt it will be cut even close to center, so will require a much weaker arrow than a modern, composite, center cut bow of the same draw weight.

I think Arne Moe's advice, and he has helped a lot of us, would be to buy something that sounds like it could be close and just shoot the daylights out of it until you start getting really consistent, small groups. Then worry about tuning it further.