Tuning Frustration...please help

[Haydenj7]

I am experiencing some frustration...trying to tune a bow and being new to trad.

I am shooting a Thunderchild 53lbs@29, my draw is around 29-29.5. I have a SBD string with jims wool puffs. Brace height 8 inches. 3 under.

I have a few dozen axis trads in 400 spine. My plan is to end up with around 11gp/lbs with good FOC. I have installed a 2 inch footing on the shaft weighing 20grains and 50grain brass inserts. I have also started with a 200grain point.

I have been bareshafting 2 shafts these, keeping one at full length as a comparison. I am shooting from about 8 metres to start. I have trimmed one arrow down one inch and it is still showing weak just like the full length arrow. Then I installed a 9 inch one stringer wrap onto the end of the shortened shaft to see if that would further stiffen it. It seems more often than not the longer shaft is showing stiffer, but only slightly.

I have then tried building out the side plate to identify a false weak with a few layers of felt and this has made no difference.

Do you think I am totally off in spine with this setup? 53lbs, 400 spine, 270gr up front on a 29.5-31inch arrow? Are axis trade typically harder to tune than other arrows?

If my form is the issue what would you recommend? Use full length shafts and let the feathers stabilise things until my form improves?

Thanks

[dirtguy]

Hoo boy.  It is hard to tune a bow being new to trad.  I've been there!

That does seem like a lot of weight up front and you ought to try a less.  Maybe no weights, just the 200 gr point?

As you've already identified, form is a confounding factor.

My best recommendation is to find a good shop or mentor!

[Alexander Traditional]

I don't have axis shafts,but I'm shooting 400 spine arrows. I have mine cut to 29 and draw 28. My poundage is about the same and I have 300 grains out front. Change tips and see if the flight gets better or worse.

When I was learning how to tune,and knew a lot of it could be me,I would draw straight through get to anchor and release in one motion. I didn't hit very well most of the time,but the release was so much cleaner. This would a lot of times tell me if I was in the ball park. As a got better I didn't need to do this so much. Tips are cheap and you will always have them. I have tips from 125 to 300 in my box. A 400 spine is a pretty stiff arrow.

[moebow]

"I am experiencing some frustration...trying to tune a bow and being new to trad. "

How NEW are you??  Bare shafting is MOST difficult if you haven't got your shot down.  I'd suggest that it is much more likely that your bare shaft efforts and results have more to do with your shot execution than with your tune.

Fletch your shafts and just shoot for a while then readdress your "tune."

You can set nocking point height and brace height with fletched arrows then JUST SHOOT.

Many advanced shooters use bare shafts for checking their form.  They are VERY sensitive to how you make a shot and this will over shadow the "tune."

Arne

Listen to Moebow! He know what he is talking about, and nailed it!

Bisch

[TxSportsman]

Originally posted by moebow:
"I am experiencing some frustration...trying to tune a bow and being new to trad. "

How NEW are you??  Bare shafting is MOST difficult if you haven't got your shot down.  I'd suggest that it is much more likely that your bare shaft efforts and results have more to do with your shot execution than with your tune.

Fletch your shafts and just shoot for a while then readdress your "tune."

You can set nocking point height and brace height with fletched arrows then JUST SHOOT.

Many advanced shooters use bare shafts for checking their form.  They are VERY sensitive to how you make a shot and this will over shadow the "tune."

Arne

Arne,

I am going through a similar scenario as the OP and I figured my form was the main factor since it is difficult for me to get a consistent reading.  Thank you for the advice!

[AZ_Longbow]

Yep, Fletch and shoot. Get your shots consistent. Learn your consistent shooting form. Once your groups are good all the time out to 20yards then try the tune. Otherwise your just chasing your tail.

[nontypical]

If you're getting a slightly stiffer reading after adding the wrap only on the longer shaft I would think the shorter is giving you a false reading. Meaning it might be too stiff and bouncing off the shelf.
Pete

[Haydenj7]

Thanks for th tips guys. Yes new to trad, but I have shot compound for years. I honestly think my form is reasonable....

Time to fletch up....

Does the spine sound to stiff?

Much appreciated

[Haydenj7]

The bow is smooth and quiet, nocking points are good.
What should I be looking for to adjust brace height?
Can brace height adjustment eliminate a false weak reading at all?

[Blessed One]

I have had pretty accurate results from using the dynamic spine calculator on 3 rivers website. If your arrow is listed you could see where you stand.

[Joeabowhunter]

Originally posted by Bisch:
Listen to Moebow! He know what he is talking about, and nailed it!

Bisch

X's 2.  Don't be too focused on bareshaft tuning....yet.

[Haydenj7]

On the 3rivers caliculator my bow dynamic spine is coming in at about 65....not exactly sure what this means..

[moebow]

The calculator is saying you are stiff, I think.  But at this point it doesn't matter.  Your .400s will be fine.  Fletch and shoot until you are getting groups.  Even really badly spined arrows will group IF YOU do your job!!

When you start getting reasonable groups, YOU will know that maybe more "tuning" is in order.  Set your brace height in the middle of your bow maker's recommended brace height and JUST SHOOT for a while.

Don't compare C bow knowledge with trad.  The form is the same but the "mechanics" are different.

Arne

[Pryor]

I really struggled with tuning last year when I got my first long bow.  I bought some arrows that seemed about right, but wouldn't tune.  I built out my strike plate to stiffin my arrows, with success.  I shot those arrows for a year, and got to where out to 15 yards I am pretty consistent.  Just got a shorter bow to fit in ground blinds, and got lots of advice on arrows and point weight.  Tuning was a breeze.  For me, the time shooting made all the difference.  Every once in a while I get frustrated with practice sessions, but have learned to enjoy the journey.

[KodaChuck]

Shooting the same arrows,my 2 cents is that the 200 gr heads are too much. Shoot this same setup with 125 gr to 145 gr and I think you just might see improved arrow flight.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Listen to Moe Bow.  He has helped thousands in figuring out form and tuning.

You mention Form being pretty good.... You are either consistent or not.  Often it takes another person watching you when you are new to tell whether you are.  Its one of those things that you can be doing wrong but feel like you are doing right.

When the time comes, send an email to Big Jim.  He knows his bows and will be able to put you on the right arrow.

I shoot the same bow only 2 lbs heavier, same draw also.  I am shooting Gold Tips 55/75 cut to 29 3/4 from the valley of the nock (VON) to the Back of the point (BOP). I have 225 Grain Points and the standard 13 Grain aluminum insert.

My arrows Fly Great as long as I do my Part. That being said, these bows will let you know quickly if you do something wrong. It's a little Bitchy But It keeps me in line and I have constant, immediate feedback letting me know if my form is out of line which I love.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Oh and I forgot to add, do not get overly particular about overall arrow weight initially.

Just fletch and shoot. The arrows will most likely end up being in between the 9-12 Grains Per Pound range. If they are more, no problem, if they are less then  there's things you can do to fix it.

Remember this is supposed to be fun.  I've been frustrated trying to tune as well.  best thing to do is walk away for a while. Trust me. Coming back fresh seems to fix a lot of the issues that appear when frustrated and Fatigued.

[Blessed One]

Since your bow is coming in at 65 it should then take you to your arrow. Enter all the info and hit calculate. It the number is within 2 either direction you should have the right spine. So if your arrow is 67-63 you should be good to go. This has been surprisingly accurate for me.

[Haydenj7]

I really appreciate all the advice so thanks.
i shot a few more full length bare shafts today and they were flying better after I reduced my brace height. But still still showing slightly weak. I focussed on consistent form and could certainly tell when it was good.

The net result was that I have fletched up some full length arrows for now. I guess the upside is that I am shooting about 100 arrows a day so consistency shouldn't be far away.

My plan is to shoot them for a while and then when the time is right return to bare shafting. I now have 250gr up front of a 31.5 inch axis trad full length shaft with a 53lb draw that I can cut down if stiffening is required...based on the 3rivers spine calculator I will need to trim to 29.5inches to match the dynamic spine of my bow....but that is phase 2!

As a back up I have ordered a few 500's to test just in case..

Thanks again.