HH bug got me ... Part One!

[khardrunner]

By the way... That is a video not just a pic I posted. Click it

[Rik]

WOW, Khardrunner made the 10,000th post on this excellent thread. That is amazing!

So much knowledge, and even more importantly, "learning" going on here that I have to admit----I really like getting better and better with a Hill bow. You all are to thank for that learning.

We learn from each other, and THAT is a wonderful thing.

P.S. I note an increase in both sharing and intensity as we approach the first day of hunting season. Clearly I am not the only one feeling the unstoppable approach of impending adventure. . .

[Rossco7002]

Interesting insight with regards to Nate's description of Hills grip and the reason for it. I googled some pictures to take a look at what he meant then did some shooting of my own a while later. Sure enough, midway through the session I remembered that post and happened to look down at my hand to see it was gripping the bow in an identical manner. Neat.

[Overspined]

The pressure through the center of the bow makes arrow spine less critical, works the limbs right, and removes torque.

Try this to feel push pull, I am stealing from GFA a little. Pull back and hold, have someone watch. Usually you end up slumping a little and collapsing, and get a soft, bad release.

Now, draw again, but before you release squeeze a little more pull and push as you stare at the spot and Bang, the arrow flies great and the follow through is easier.

Howards form was amazing, that arrow left and nothing moved a lot of time. Rock solid.  Again, he was shooting bows that probably felt like toys to him.  Pick up a kids bow and see how you do, probably darn well for arrow release and form!

[Nate Steen .]

A good, solid bowarm leads to good shooting.  A great bowarm makes for great shooting.  Here are some thoughts and techniques I use after much study of the Hill style...

If you study much martial arts punching...you learn that you get the most power with an arm that is not fully extended...like a jab, you use the deltoid muscle of the shoulder and not the tricep.  Same with the bow arm.  Try this...hold a cordless drill in your bowhand while holding it out to the side of the body with an extended arm...look at the elbow and bowhand....elbow is bent and pointing down and wrist and bowhand looks like Hill's which looks like you are shooting a pistol and that is the essential Hill grip on the bow.  Holding the drill with arm extended puts pressure on the deltoid muscle and imitates the feeling of how the deltoid should feel when drawing and shooting.  This takes pressure off the tricep, and shortens the draw because the shoulder is back in the shoulder girdle where it is strong and stable.  Most guys do the pushing with the tricep instead of the deltoid and that is a weaker position.  Hold the bow like a heavy pistol...arm is bent to absorb recoil and elbow points down

Now try this with one of the doors in your home... open the door about 1/2 way and stand and place your hand against the door edge in a low wrist position like when you hold the drill or pistol and then lean against the door...like you are shooting your bow.  The hinges will allow the door to swing and you will fall forward unless you are stable.  The lower your bowarm elbow is pointing, and the more your shoulder  is back in the socket the more stable you are and easier to control the door.  The more you rotate your elbow  out and grip the door like an Asbell canted hand grip with pressure against your thumb...the harder it is to keep the door from swinging all over.  This is a good way to feel how the shoulder controls the bowarm...

Hand position on the handle will dictate bowarm position.  They go together like ham and eggs.  Correct bow  arm with low pointing elbow is very strong, stable, and will shorten the draw...all good things.

[Nate Steen .]

Jacques brought up arrows and spine......  I have never bareshaft tuned and I shoot arrows usually about 10# over my bowweight of 64# and love  9gpi...but I can shoot 64#-79# shafts with a little tip weight changes.  I dislike efoc and heads over 165 because I like the flexibility to shoot long range and efoc arrows for me fly tip heavy and nosedive after about 35 yards.  I like a nice flat arc.

The other day I shot a 64#, 70#  and 77# arrows..heads from light htm blunts to 160 blunts and all 26 3/4" bop pulled into the bow. and grouped all arrows in a 8" circle at 40 yards...that is a kill zone on almost every big game animal  ...I use big helicle fletch and b50 and to quote Hill and Schulz..." I know what my arrow is doing at 30 yards".  I think longbow instinctive shooters would do themselves a world of good to shoot longer ranges...get their bowarm up and level at the shot and not pointing down at a ground target...learn what their trajectory is at 40 or 50 yards which shows flaws in form...dump the bareshaft tuning for awhile and just shoot the bow and train the eye and great dividends will result.

[cahaba]

DELETE please

[cahaba]

DELETE please

[toddster]

Great points Jacques and Nate.  pretty much clear's up alot of fog that is out there in "Hill" shooting form land. Bow arm and great release translate into solid hardcore bowhunting shooting harvest.

[toddster]

I have experimented and really noticed a huge differance in gripping the bow, between the placement.  Holding the bow as if holding a baby bird, not to tight and not to loose and applying pressure with the last three fingers while side pressure at same time, "locks" the grip into the hand and straight into the Ulna bow making it solid.  At least what I found works for me.  Also, align's all the bones in the hand up.

[Ben Maher]

Right on Cahaba .. that is some fantastic shooting eh !

We Hill shooters need to get out there and compete in field and 3d more I reckon , spread the word with our actions and way way cooler than everyone else in terms of equipment ... getting your shots on at 50 yards+ will do wonders for your shooting and confidence plus its great fun ..... in fact to me it is one f the true joys of shooting a longbow

The current IFAA champ shoots a Hill style bow ... and the world record holder Darryl Reeks won his event and broke the world record with a Hill style bow
 Darryl with Larry Yien
Get to the level Nate is shooting, 8" groups at 40 yards ... and i'd think you'd be a good chance to podium finish pretty much any IBO or field tourney going ...

slightly off topic but it'd be great to see what i consider  "longbows" back in the fold in IFAA/NFAA rather than the uber big risered , but fine shooting 'modern' longbows ...

... and we are probably the guys to do it .....

..... jus sayin ........

[cahaba]

DELETE please

[Ben Maher]

3rd huh ? ...
show off ....... lol!!!!!

way cool ..... thats one of those shots i'd love to get to one day ... show ya all how its done ......

[Pete Patterson]

Khard,
Very fine form on all those videos, especially the follow-through.
 
I'm hoping you were shooting at some baby food.....cause he/she seems really hungry.

[Nate Steen .]

I shoot instinctive always...I can't shoot 8" groups all day long like is required for target/ 3d shooting...but roving around and shooting at various targets up to 40 yards with 2-3 arrows max I can shoot pretty good.  But long range shooting is what makes it possible.  You have to burn the arrow arc into your instinctive eye.  At 20 or 25 yards my arrows are basically shooting flat..no arc which is easy shooting.  That is why lots of guys can't hit anything past 25 yards...they only shoot the distance their bow shoots flat and never learn their arrow arc.

[Nate Steen .]

Cahaba...with the various arrow spines my point weight varied also...total arrow weights varied from 485-575.  This goes along with what Jacques said.

[WESTBROOK]

That is why lots of guys can't hit anything past 25 yards...they only shoot the distance their bow shoots flat and never learn their arrow arc.

Good point Nate, get out there beyond 40 and it WILL MAKE YOU shoot better. Everything becomes critical out there, you must do it all right every time.

Eric

[khardrunner]

He is just a bit of a grump, although it was getting close to feeding time.

I've only been shooting lefty since march. I am experiencing some eye dominance issues, but I think my form is better lefty than it was righty.

[Charlie Lamb]

Just a thought... if you only ever practice at 15-20 yards and no further then you are always shooting at the very edge of your effective range.

As an example I have a friend who always practices at 12-15 yards because as he says "that's mostly where I get shots".

At 20 yards he hasn't got a prayer. He even mocks me for my long range practice. "You ain't ever gonna shoot something that far". I practice at 50-80 regularly.

I heart shot a buck last fall at almost 40 yards and that was just "lucky".

Honestly, 20 yards should be a slam dunk and yet many are intimidated by shots at that distance.

[Claymore]

Someone asked about Howard's draw length. I can't remember for sure but Bob Wesley had some of his arrow and they were like 26 - 27" the best I remember. I know someone will come along and know for sure.