HH bug got me ... Part One!

[swampthing]

Technical? Sounds pretty simple to me. Add or subtract 5# for every inch of arrow length adjustment, add or subtract 5# for every 25g of point adjustment. Tuning basics, keep it simple.
  Now, if you have a bundle of shafts  too stiff for you, taper them.  I appreciate the Kudos, but It is not my idea. Howard wrote about it in Hunting the Hard Way. I would not overlook that section. John even wrote in his book that Howard was after the best arrow flight he could get, to those who said "they" kept their arrows long so that they can re-taper them when they broke, Howard would say you are more concerned with saving arrows then with perfect arrow flight!
   I have occasionally overlooked hard work, but this tuning is necessary, and I would never put myself "at a disadvantage when bowhunting,"
  Season starts tomorrow.    

[swampthing]

This question is for the Hill Bow Experts only. Us who are still perfecting our approach will be forever in frustration and move on to other styles. When you die so does your world renowned reputation as being the best. So before you croak answer me this, if you can't, don't bother typing:  
      With a 125g point the arrow porpoises like a dolphin, tried all different forms, styles, draws, releases, nock points, spines, B-heights, etc. etc. Put a 190g point on her and bam great flight. With that point weight I can "just shoot," make it happen have you, with accuracy. Wood shafts of course 27" draw. Heres the kicker, put a 100g point on and bam, good flight.

[Kelly]

What's the question?

[swampthing]

Why and how is it fixed?

[swampthing]

I might have the solution. When at full draw, if your anchor is higher than your point, {caused by having head up too high and arrow too low at anchor} causes the arrow to smash down into the riser at the shot. Bringing the bow hand up more and the nock end up with it, like one would "Shotgun the Shaft" or sight down the length of the arrow, sort of but not exactly oh smart one, keep the arrow basically straight and horizontal, tilting the head allows this. Cranking your neck, bending the bow arm too much, shrinking under the weight of the bow, does not always put your arrow horizontal at full draw. PUTTING! the arrow horizontal, and inline with the eye at FULL DRAW! is what I'm finding as to be "proper archery form." Point weights don't matter as much with this approach, so a 125g Zwickey to give a good trajectory it is. Season starts tomorrow.

[Kelly]

What porpoising?

It is the result of a combination of nocking point and brace height problems and can also be effected by changing the tiller of a bow by different grips with pressure points in a different place than where the bow was tillered. Faulty release could also come into play.

Have never seen where going to a heavier grip, without changing brace height and/or nock point, corrects/eliminates porpoising. So that tells me that grip position may be changing the tiller and/or release may be more of the cause.

In most cases porpoising is corrected by changing nock point and brace height.

Remember in the scenario you described on the last page your 52# spins shaft @ 28" just went to 60# spine at 26.5" and your 50# @ 28" bow dropped to 44/45# @ 26", but these arrows should still have flown fairly straight and maybe impacting slightly left of your intended target.

Tail wagging is a spine issue-porpoising is a tuning issue via nock point and brace height.

When trying to fix problems one needs to do only one change at a time-not several because then one nevers knows which change is the one that worked.

[swampthing]

At full draw I had the nock up higher than the point, almost like I was pointing the front of the bow down. Did not feel it, see it, or even fathom it till I saw it in the mirror. Got that arrow pointing straight, and straight it flies.

[Rossco7002]

My Schulz Granpa arrived today (all 28@27 of it). All I can say is WOW. with the string follow and the all bamboo limbs it feels lighter on the draw than my 54@26 Cheetah. It is amazingly smooth and at the shot very gentle and quiet in the hand. The condition for this 30 year old bow is flawless.

It does take a much weaker arrow than its glassed counterparts. I'm presuming due to the string follow  plus solely bamboo lams.

I love it and it shoots where I look. Two weeks til deer season!

[Bud B.]

Sooooooo,,,


Any Hill harvests recently to post up? As soon as I release the 2013 St. Jude's Faith bow my Dave Johnson bow and I are gonna have a few dates together  

Speaking of which, have we pestered Terry enough to have a Hill style Hope and Faith for 2014?

[Kelly]

Originally posted by swampthing:
At full draw I had the nock up higher than the point, almost like I was pointing the front of the bow down. Did not feel it, see it, or even fathom it till I saw it in the mirror. Got that arrow pointing straight, and straight it flies.

That is what they makes bow squares for.  

[swampthing]

Not the nock point Kelly, the actual nock-end of the arrow was up higher by a few inches compared to the point, as in I was pointing the arrow down. Did not seem that way at all,  just need to bring that bow arm up higher!

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by Rossco7002:
My Schulz Granpa arrived today (all 28@27 of it). All I can say is WOW. with the string follow and the all bamboo limbs it feels lighter on the draw than my 54@26 Cheetah.

At that weight it ought to feel lighter    ( I know it's a typo)

[khardrunner]

Sure could use some more pics of that Schulz!

[Rossco7002]

Good point - its 68@27.

[Overspined]

Swamp,


Have you tried nocking above the nock point?  I went below for a LOT of years and found that all arrows i shot are more forgiving in flight when nocked above.  Even near perfect arrows flew perfect.  Took a little getting used to.  Also, the shaft diameter seems to be less of an issue when nocked above when shooting different arrows.

The aspect you say about smashing the arrow on the shelf is another thing that may change.   If you glance at your arrow at full draw, you may notice it is actually flexed downward because of finger pressure on the nock.  Look from behind other shooters, it's really common.  Nocking above can help eliminate this too.  

If you already nock above, never mind    

[Berliner]

Regarding my last post I tried to sound a little self-deprecating when describing the German forum culture. May be it`s my lack in English writing as a German. Again: It wasn`t my intention to step on someones toes....Sorry, if I did. We all love this sport!  

[Kelly]

Originally posted by swampthing:
Not the nock point Kelly, the actual nock-end of the arrow was up higher by a few inches compared to the point, as in I was pointing the arrow down. Did not seem that way at all,  just need to bring that bow arm up higher!

Am really confused with your descriptions. If nock point is correct and you are just aiming low the arrow flight should still be good.

Now if you are raising up your bow arm just at release then I might see some eratic flight and that is a form problem-not a tuning problem. Sometimes I have this same problem but still get good arrow flight-just hit below my target sometimes and others I raise up the bow arm in time to hit the target. Yes, I acknowledge I have a form problem but it is not a tuning issue nor a spine problem.

[Butch Speer]

Berliner,
I don't believe you stepped on anybody.

[Mudd]

Berliner ~ You're doing just fine. (IMHO)

God bless,Mudd

[David Mitchell]

Berlioner, your English is much better than my German.    No problem.