3Rivers Archery



The Trad Gang Digital Market













Contribute to Trad Gang and Access the Classifieds!

Become a Trad Gang Sponsor!

Traditional Archery for Bowhunters






LEFT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS TRAD GANG CLASSIFIEDS ACCESS RIGHT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS


Author Topic: HH bug got me ... Part One!  (Read 137997 times)

Offline Nate Steen .

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2433
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10960 on: October 05, 2012, 03:50:00 PM »
for the guys interested in shooting a longbow better, here goes....for the old timers who are shooting good as always (Mssrs. Lamb, LeClair, Cameron, etc.)you can skip all this stuff.... :)

This will be a multi-part series, here's part 1:
one of the banes of modern target shooting is the small, portable, foam target/backstop.  They are designed for compound shooters mostly. Back in the day, most everyone shot targets at round mat targets, or stacked haybales.  Mostly the round targets are set up on stands around 48" to the center of the bull.  When people learned to shoot the Hillstyle swing draw back then, they shot at a target that was almost or truely on plane with their shoulders. The 'swing' was a long swing to get the bow up to a level position.
Nowadays, people go buy a foam cube target and shoot at it on the ground.  The 'swing' is a much shorter swing to get the bowarm on target.  Watching many fellas shoot, I've noticed that the old timers used to shooting level have great follow through and a nice, level bowarm/drawing arm form.  Olympic target archers have this same nice form.  Backyard shooters tend to have a quicker shot form, sloppier bowarm and dropping arm form, due to the fact they are shooting down at the ground.

This shorter swing time of the bowarm at the lower target position will lead to short drawing and premature release because of the speed at which the shooter is on target and the brain yelling to let go of the string.  Also, I've noticed it is difficult to keep a nice level/straight drawing arm in line with the arrow (straight line form) when always shooting down.

We are creatures of habit, so when we practice shooting down at a ground level target all the time, we ingrain that swing draw timing, and it is difficult to shoot at a target that's 3 or 4 feet off the ground where a deer/elk's chest would be because that takes a longer swing, or longer draw timing to get on target.

Lesson 1:  get a target set up so that you can shoot absolutely level with your anchor...I'm 74" tall, my anchor point is 64" off the ground,  I shoot at a target 64" off the ground also...  That's key point number 1.  If you are 5'7", your anchor point on your face will be somewhere around 56-57" off the ground.  Set up your backstop and target so that the center is that high off the ground.
Start shooting the swing draw while focusing at a spot level with your anchor and shoot over and over at about 10 yards or less.  Shoot lots of arrows, lots of arrows until that swing motion is absolutely repetitious and your bowarm, drawing arm/elbow and arrow straight line will be beautiful.  One week of shooting 40-50 arrows per day will be a good start.

and have someone photo you or video you and you will notice a nice form like Schulz has in his video, or Hill has in his photos and movies.

Lesson 2 and the reasons why this level shooting is important will be discussed next week.

 

 

Offline Bud B.

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 7289
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10961 on: October 05, 2012, 07:30:00 PM »
OK Nate, I'm tuned in. (as in watching and waiting)

Now that the 2013 St. Jude Faith bow is on to the next hunter I'm back to the Hill styles.

Thanks for helping.
TGMM Family of the Bow >>>>---------->

"You can learn more about deer hunting with a bow and arrow in a week, than a gun hunter might learn all his life." ----- Fred Bear

Offline far rider

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1736
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10962 on: October 05, 2012, 07:46:00 PM »
Thanks Nate! I'll give lesson 1 a try.

Tim
Noli rogare pro onia pauciora, rogate pro scapulas latiores.

I go afield with bent wood, stick and string in search of serenity  through my primal quest.

Venatôr

Offline Goshawkin

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1636
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10963 on: October 05, 2012, 08:46:00 PM »
Cool,I've been setting my targets up at about chest height for years.Always made sense to me to practice on targets while I could be in perfect form,then go stumping for more realistic hunting practice.

Offline MikeNova

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 859
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10964 on: October 06, 2012, 02:42:00 AM »
Nate good point but does this practice apply if you primarily hunt from a treestand? If I'm not jumping ahead to far.

Offline DWilhelm

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10965 on: October 06, 2012, 05:05:00 AM »
Thanks Nate.  This is the type of stuff we need.  I actually set up a target in my unfinished basement that allows me to shoot level about a year ago.  This may explain why I have never shot a bow so consistently as my Hill Big 5.

I will be waiting patiently for the lessons.

Offline Goshawkin

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1636
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10966 on: October 06, 2012, 07:49:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DWilhelm:
 This may explain why I have never shot a bow so consistently as my Hill Big 5.
You're last name might have something to do with it as well!!!There were a couple GREAT Hill style shooters with the same name. Ken and Walt Wilhelm. Hunting buddies of Howard's.One of them put the apple on their head for the William Tell shot. Would be way cool if you were related to them.

Offline Nate Steen .

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2433
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10967 on: October 06, 2012, 09:13:00 AM »
Notice all the old video clips of Hill almost all shots are set up to shoot level.  That is the foundation form.  Don't get ahead Mike....the swing to level cadence or timing is what each shooter must learn.  Our individual cadence might vary...but develop your own cadence....or rythm if you prefer.  

When I am not stumpshooting I shoot level at the bales...9 or 10 yards.  That is it.  No twenty yard shots, etc.  Always close shooting for form..always level.  I can bring up my bow to level and shoot blindfolded.  I can do it it my sleep.  I have shot tens of thousands  of arrows this way.  This form foundation should be automatic....

That is the thing to work on...everything else falls into place and that is what is coming.......

Offline LongStick64

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2117
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10968 on: October 06, 2012, 01:13:00 PM »
Nate, I completely agree with you but as far as a below level target, by bending from my waist, am I not in the same position as if I am shooting straight up at a level target ?
Primitive Bowhunting.....the experience of a lifetime

Offline cahaba

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1773
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10969 on: October 06, 2012, 01:56:00 PM »
Excellent as always Nate. Can't wait for the next lesson!
cahaba: A Choctaw word that means
"River from above"

Offline Shinken

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2752
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10970 on: October 06, 2012, 02:20:00 PM »
I think that I will get me a manikin so that I can work on my William Tell shot this winter!  I think one that stands 57" - 58" tall will be just the ticket....

   :saywhat:  

Shoot straight, Shinken

   :archer2:
"The measure of your life will be the measure of your courage."

TRUTH is TRUTH
even if no one believes it

A LIE is a LIE
even if everyone believes it

Offline Ray_G

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 928
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10971 on: October 06, 2012, 03:31:00 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Shinken:
I think that I will get me a manikin so that I can work on my William Tell shot this winter!  I think one that stands 57" - 58" tall will be just the ticket....

    :saywhat:    

Shoot straight, Shinken

    :biglaugh:   Must have video proof, David!
Sunset Hill 64" 54# @ 26"  "Destiny"

B.H.A.

Online Kelly

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1407
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10972 on: October 06, 2012, 03:40:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ron w:
Maybe I missed it earlier in this thread, but was there ever a Hill Bow made with a reverse handle? Just curious as I just picked up a Northern Mist Whisper and it seems kind'a neat! So what can you tell me? Thanks in advance.......ron w
In John Schulz's book, "Hitting Em Like Howard Hill there is a picture of Howard doing some shooting with a reverse handle bow in his hands. Looks exactly like a regular Hill LB-just turned around so the back became the belly. Suspect this one was from the fiberglass age.
>>>>============>

Enjoy the flight of an arrow amongst Mother Nature's Glory!

Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!

>>>>============>

Yours for better bowhunting, Kelly

Offline MikeNova

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 859
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10973 on: October 06, 2012, 04:51:00 PM »
Ok Nate  not for that reason but I had already elevated my bag target some, now I have elavated it more. Now I'm going to put that 10 yards into practice. Keep posting I'm listning.

Offline Hank

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10974 on: October 06, 2012, 07:09:00 PM »
The straight line thing is not new and actually not really the way it is -- Bob Wesley teaches and explains it correctly. Looking at the pictures posted by Sunset Hill, you can see the elbow is slightly elevated. Drawing a straight line from the elbow through the drawing hand, it points straight to the bow hand, the arrow is at a slightly different angle, more level with the ground.
Remember, if you walk a mile in someone's shoes, you will be a mile away and have their shoes.

Offline Nate Steen .

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2433
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10975 on: October 06, 2012, 08:14:00 PM »
Straight line form is probably better described as level form as there are some angles caused by both wrists.....the idea is to get used to shooting level, not down.  I will download some pics soon.

This stuff isn't new...I am just telling it as to how  it applies to the Hill style of shooting and how it relates to things Hill said to his students.

Offline Nate Steen .

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2433
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10976 on: October 06, 2012, 08:17:00 PM »
Shinkin...now thats funny right there..!

Offline moebow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2509
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10977 on: October 06, 2012, 09:20:00 PM »
My take on all this is that the MOST IMPORTANT alignment is having your bow arm 90* to your spine.  This is regardless of where the target is.  If you look at all the pictures of the "masters" you will see that 90* angle.  When you are developing this, having the bale/target at shoulder level will help learn and set that angle.

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Nate Steen .

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2433
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10978 on: October 07, 2012, 01:46:00 AM »
Bingo Arne.....and Hill, having a background in target/field archery would have developed this.  I think it is one of the fundamentals.  Each of us has a rythm to get the bow up to that point of solid form where everything is in line, backtension is good and release happens while pulling in the oposite direction of the pushing bowhand.

Without this type of form then the type of accuracy Hill achieved would have been hard to accomplish.

One of my favorite quotes from Hill....."if your form is right, you won't be too far off at 50 yards"     why that distance and what does it have to do with this basic level shooting form that needs to be ingrained until it becomes habit?   Think on it.....it is one of my favorite lessons from Hill who is still teaching us how much he knew and how little he told the general public

Offline DWilhelm

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #10979 on: October 07, 2012, 06:14:00 AM »
Goshawkin, ever since I heard of Ken and Walt Wilhelm, I often wondered if I could be distantly related to them.  There aren't a lot of famous people with the Wilhelm name, but I am glad there are two that are famous for their ability with the bow.

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 19 Guests are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©