3Rivers Archery



The Trad Gang Digital Market













Contribute to Trad Gang and Access the Classifieds!

Become a Trad Gang Sponsor!

Traditional Archery for Bowhunters






LEFT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS TRAD GANG CLASSIFIEDS ACCESS RIGHT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS


Author Topic: HH bug got me ... Part One!  (Read 137744 times)

Offline toddster

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1793
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11280 on: October 23, 2012, 08:53:00 PM »
Question, anyone know if Craig make's a string follow bow?  Imagine if he did it could be ordered in any model?

Offline ChrisM

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1889
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11281 on: October 23, 2012, 08:57:00 PM »
Yes he does.  I have  a Wesly special.  And yes he offers all models in SF straight or back set.
Gods greatest command:  Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Offline SportHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1684
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11282 on: October 23, 2012, 08:58:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by toddster:
Question, anyone know if Craig make's a string follow bow?  Imagine if he did it could be ordered in any model?
I've seen others post pics of a few string follow HH bows from Craig. It doesn't seem to be common but the demand for them will likely bring more requests for them. The one I saw didn't have much string follow as compared to the Shelton.

Offline Brazos

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 507
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11283 on: October 23, 2012, 10:45:00 PM »
The first bow I got from HHA is reflexed.  I got it around 1999.  I bought a second HHA bow in 2005 and it is reflexed.  I bought my third bow from HHA in June and it is straight.  I just assumed it would be reflexed like my othe two.  I don't really care.  It shoots great.  Just thought it was odd.

Offline tradlongbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2643
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11284 on: October 24, 2012, 04:23:00 PM »
I posted the raffle information on it's own thread today for the "One dozen Howard Hill arrows with broadheads valued at $175.00.

These arrows are a donation from Craig Ekin, and the money collected will be sent to St. Jude.

The winner will have a new set of arrows for the HillGang Hog Hunt 2013.

Good Luck!

Darren
Darren

[email protected]

"Archery may not be the sport of all Kings, but Archery is the King of Sports"
Howard Hill

SunSet Hill, stringfollow, 66" [email protected]",

Offline Molson

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1582
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11285 on: October 24, 2012, 04:48:00 PM »
My Tembo is a string follow.  The Hill bows do not have near as much string follow as the Shelton.  Craig uses the same form regardless of bow length so a longer bow will have more string follow than a shorter bow.
"The old ways will work in the future, but the new ways have never worked in the past."

Offline tradlongbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2643
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11286 on: October 24, 2012, 05:24:00 PM »
Well, the thread was pulled about the raffle so I emailed Terry. I talked via email to Terry earlier this year about the raffle so I'll have to wait and see why the thread was pulled.

They may want me to move thread to another area.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Darren
Darren

[email protected]

"Archery may not be the sport of all Kings, but Archery is the King of Sports"
Howard Hill

SunSet Hill, stringfollow, 66" [email protected]",

Offline far rider

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1736
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11287 on: October 24, 2012, 06:33:00 PM »
Thanks Darren,
Any news or details on the t-shirts?

Tim
Noli rogare pro onia pauciora, rogate pro scapulas latiores.

I go afield with bent wood, stick and string in search of serenity  through my primal quest.

Venatôr

Offline tradlongbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2643
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11288 on: October 24, 2012, 07:02:00 PM »
Tim
Jeff Schultz will be collecting the money for the shirts. Let's see if Jeff sees this post. I beleive he was going to start collecting in November
Darren

[email protected]

"Archery may not be the sport of all Kings, but Archery is the King of Sports"
Howard Hill

SunSet Hill, stringfollow, 66" [email protected]",

Offline dragonheart

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3593
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11289 on: October 24, 2012, 09:03:00 PM »
November was the plan for the shirts.  I will start another thread about the shirts, because there are several Hill threads, and I want to avoid confusion.
Longbows & Short Shots

Offline far rider

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1736
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11290 on: October 24, 2012, 09:20:00 PM »
Hey thanks guys,
I must has misundertood. I thought I was suppose to commit on the shirt in October. I apologise.

Thanks,

Tim
Noli rogare pro onia pauciora, rogate pro scapulas latiores.

I go afield with bent wood, stick and string in search of serenity  through my primal quest.

Venatôr

Offline Bud B.

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 7289
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11291 on: October 24, 2012, 11:08:00 PM »
Sat in a treestand this evening with the Dave Johnson. A spike came meandering in about 30 minutes before dark. I had to pass on him as I only have one more buck tag for this area. It felt good to at least have had the opportunity with that bow in hand. Maybe next time.
TGMM Family of the Bow >>>>---------->

"You can learn more about deer hunting with a bow and arrow in a week, than a gun hunter might learn all his life." ----- Fred Bear

Offline Nate Steen .

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2433
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11292 on: October 24, 2012, 11:19:00 PM »
for the fellas who have been practicing the first lesson in Hillstyle form are are waiting for lesson 2, here goes....(I decided not to make diagrams, I figured I can spell it out good enough)

If you have been practicing the level shooting form at a backstop around 9 or 10 yards and have been observant of your arrow flight (the oldtimers back in the day really knew their arrow flight inside and out, even to how many feet it took for an arrow to make a complete revolution, but I digress...)  If you have been observant, you might have noticed that as your form gets repetitive, and you start shooting without conscious aiming (yet the arrows group in the middle)  your arrows are probably grouping higher than your level form would dictate.   That is because arrow flight isn't flat.  Due to the bending of the arrow shaft sideways and up/down, it recoils from the forces of the string and this recoil launches the arrow upward into a parabolic shaped flight.

if you shoot perfectly level form, at close range you would think that the arrow will hit a point exactly level with your arrow shelf.  Not so. ( If you shoot paper tune while shooting level, the tear will show tail high when it is actually the arrow rising in it flight path.  If you shoot paper tune while shooting down, you can trick the paper by shooting down at the proper angle so that the arrow tear shows a straight arrow flight....that's why I don't fully believe all paper tuning stuff...but I digress again...)

Anyway,  this parabolic arrow flight rises as the arrow leaves the bow, and for most bows shooting matched arrows of around 9 - 10 gpi around 170 to 180 fps, this parabolic flight is extremely consistent.  The arrow passes a horizontal point (so many inches off the ground)  at around 10 yards, then rises to it's apex around 20 yards, then back down to the same point at 30 yards that it passed at 10 yards before continuing on a descending arc to the ground at somewhere around 50 yards.  All this is on flat level ground of course.

So,  taking into consideration that most of the bows in Hill's day were shooting arrows in the 170 - 180 fps range, most bows shot a similar trajectory, give or take a few yards.  My bows actually shoot about 5 inches higher at 10 yards than level, and pass this same point at around 32 yards, and hit the ground around 55 yards.  I'm 6'2" tall.  John Turner (of American Leathers) is about 5'8" tall, with level shooting his arrows group at about 47 yards.  Each person is different, each bow and arrow setup is different,  you have to have fun figuring out your trajectory.

How does this all translate into making you a better shot?  Hill said...."what's your arrow doing at 30 yards?"  in other words,  if you practice good LEVEL form at 10 yards "until it's repetitive and subconsciously done", then you have also subconsciously ingrained the proper form to shoot the same spot at 30 yards without altering anything in your form. Even in his 60's, Hill would go out and shoot anywhere from 50 to 100 arrows just for form.  I wonder at what distance he shot form?  HHMMM....     What's neat about this, is that if your level form shooting at 10 yards produces an arrow impact point of 60" from the ground, then your arrow will pass through a 'window' approximately 60" off the ground at 30 yards, and then travel on to pass through a 'window' approximately 30 - 40" off the ground at 40 yards, and then hit the ground at 50 yards.  So in essence, your "level form shooting" at ten yards becomes so ingrained that you can do it without thinking, it's automatic, and now you automatically are shooting deer height targets at 40 yards without altering anything in your form, and you are shooting rabbit sized targets at 50 yards on the ground without altering anything in your form.

Shazam! Wow!

Now hear Hill..." if your form is right, you won't be too far off at 50 yards"....  Did he know what he was talking about or what!  Those two quotes from him are gems, mostly lost on the ears of those who think his instructions are not valid today.

Offline Nate Steen .

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2433
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11293 on: October 24, 2012, 11:33:00 PM »
Believe me fellas,  this stuff works.

I have been working with John Turner (American Leathers) on his shooting.  He's shot a longbow for 30 plus years, bows in general for around 50 years.  He was watching me shoot awhile back and wondered why I always shot for form, while out stumpshooting, at around 50 yards, and how I grouped arrows so well at that range without sights....   This is the lesson secret that I let him in on.  My form shooting at a ground target at 50 - 55 yards is the EXACT same level form I shoot in my shop, or at my haybales at 9 yards year 'round.  That level form shot is so ingrained, I can do it in my sleep.  I can group arrows at 9 yards in the dark at the exact same height.  That form also shoots arrows in a group at 50 - 55 yards if I do everything right.  That's what Hill said, and that's the truth.

I got John to start shooting level at 9 or 10 yards for form.  It was a challenge at first because he previously had done all his practice shooting at close targets, mostly on the ground, and was shooting down.  Now he shoots level and it is getting more ingrained all the time.  If he is outside, he shoots at a 50 yard target on the ground, realizing that it utilizes the same level form.  He called me the other day to brag a little.....he had shot a cat food can 3 times in a row at 50 yards.  A short while ago he would not have attempted this, let alone hit the can.  Now he says....."shooting this well, at those distances, has made me realize what a 'chip shot' the close targets are, and now those close shots are all 'gimmies'....and he's now saying he has never shot this well in his life"  and this is after just a short time of employing level shooting form, and understanding how arrow trajectory works.

So, my friends,  let this timeless Hill lesson, passed on to us by his protege Schulz, work for all of us, whether we need to shoot long range for fun, for game recovery, or whatever.  If you do not have access to long range shooting on a regular basis, then make it a priority to shoot "level form" at no more than 9 or 10 yards on a consistent basis until the form is automatic, and you will be automatically a better shot at 30 yards, and a great big game shot at 40 yards and be dusting rabbits at 50 yards.  

How cool is that?  Way, I'm thinking.....

Offline Bud B.

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 7289
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11294 on: October 24, 2012, 11:53:00 PM »
Thank you Nate.
TGMM Family of the Bow >>>>---------->

"You can learn more about deer hunting with a bow and arrow in a week, than a gun hunter might learn all his life." ----- Fred Bear

Offline tg2nd

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 431
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11295 on: October 25, 2012, 12:52:00 AM »
:clapper:     :clapper:    :clapper:
German by birth, Bavarian by the grace of god

Offline Steve Clandinin

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2343
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11296 on: October 25, 2012, 01:02:00 AM »
:notworthy:    Fantastic information,and all you have said truly makes sense.There is so much to shooting a longbow that is unforseen,Hill just made it look so easy.When you saw Howard shoot ,you knew there was more to it than " Just" shooting.Thanks ever so much for this priceless info.
Quote from Howard Hill.( Whenever he taught someone to shoot) "Son make up your mind right now if you want to target shoot or hunt as theres a world of differance between the two"

Offline far rider

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1736
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11297 on: October 25, 2012, 01:18:00 AM »
Appreciate the lesson.
Noli rogare pro onia pauciora, rogate pro scapulas latiores.

I go afield with bent wood, stick and string in search of serenity  through my primal quest.

Venatôr

Online shick

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1339
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11298 on: October 25, 2012, 06:00:00 AM »
Nate, that makes so much sense, it is 'scary'.
Shick
TGMM Family of the Bow
DAV

Offline khardrunner

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1729
Re: HH bug got me ... Part One!
« Reply #11299 on: October 25, 2012, 06:19:00 AM »
Nate, this is assuming perfect and consistent arrow flight as a result of a good release and perfectly matched arrows.

Any tips for working on those two things? I can't seem to get those kinds of results from my hill style bows yet because I can't get arrows to fly consistently.
I Corinthians 9 24-25
...run in such a way so as to obtain the prize!

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©