HH bug got me ... Part One!

[swampthing]

Shoot some and find out.

[WESTBROOK]

I have, thats why I asked

[swampthing]

Before I say I must say that I am talking about wood arrows...

[swampthing]

One advantage is it makes for a faster arrow for flatter flight. Accomplished by; obviously the shorter wood, and, less point weight to achieve a good balance point for perfect arrow flight.

[shick]

Smoke, congratulations.  Looking good.
Shick

[khardrunner]

Bow is 69 inches recently tillered and refinished by nate steen. Its super smooth. Arrows are cut 28.5 inches bop

[Swamp Yankee]

It's a cliche, but aim small, miss small.  Aim for the middle of the center of the smallest spot you can imagine.  There is a technique to cure target panic where you shoot at point blank range with your eyes closed to focus on form only; but that's the only case I can think of where I wouldn't want to be focusing on a spot every time.  Good luck and don't forget to just have fun!

[Brianlocal3]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
[QB] Thanks guys... Brian I shoot a split vision or instinctive type style... ish. I don't have any interest in gaping.

Khard,
If you are split vision shooting then you are gapping in a sense. Even Howard Hill shot split vision. And once you are profiecient at it, you are not thinking about your secondary spot, it just happens.  But learning to shoot split vision will speed things up greatly. Plus enhance your accuracy without sacrificing any fluidity or tempo of your shot. Bob Wesely, John Shultz, all proponents off the swing draw and split vision.

I am not trying to persuade you , just give you some tips.

[khardrunner]

Brain I do appreciate your tips. It's simply not a method of shooting that I am interested in. Nothing personal at all and I appreciate your willingness to share what has worked for you.

I know the discussion has been had as to whether or not split vision is gap shooting or not. I side with those who feel that split vision is simply a derivation of a purely instinctive method. I've never heard Schulz or Hill doing any of the things that you mentioned. I have Schulz's video and I've read Hill's writing. They describe an intense focus on the spot you wish to hit with a slight, secondary "peeking" at the arrow shaft. I believe it is simply a place within the draw cycle to begin seeing the flight path of the arrow.

Good stuff guys!

[swampthing]

kunner, you are pulling that bow past the stacking point. Even though the bow is a good length for you, at your current draw length, pulling a bow into the stacking point is not going to help w/consistency. Nor would trying to get a blunt tipped wood arrow to fly "just" like a broadhead.
 Just for grins, try a shot like this: Without preconceived notion, and, a relaxed mind and without though, swing the bow up and draw as you point the whole arrow at the target, allow your bodies natural motion to happen, and as soon as you feel the corner of your mouth, pull through there slightly and as you point your fingers at the target for a release. Take a vid of that cool, casual, enjoyably shooting style/session. Be confident not cocky.

[khardrunner]

I don't feel it stacking at all. I've shot enough bows to know what that feels like, and I don't get that at all. I can see what you are saying about the string angle, but I don't know I don't feel it at all.

To be honest I am scared to just pull up and let her fly. I learned to shoot from the Schulz video when I was probably 5 or 6 with my dad helping my brother and I out. I shot RH at the time. By the age of around 12-13 I developed severe TP. I sort of got it under control in my early 20's but I rarely shot during my teen years. I still struggle with it if I try to shoot RH. When my shoulder busted (birth defect related), I vowed never to have TP problems while shooting LH. I don't want to go down that road again.

It sounds like I don't have a clue or that I'm a newb on here, and in some ways that is true. Really in the sense that I am building from scratch or darn close to it as I shoot LH. I just want to build a better way than I did last time.

[swampthing]

You probably wont feel the additional pound or so from the stacking, thats not the issue. The issue is the string angle at your draw is past 90deg. you don't even want 90deg AT your draw! In essence you are now stretching the bow out and you have used up all the mechanical advantage afforded by the string angle. The bow weight might be low enough so you don't notice it much. The problem with that is, as you shoot, a bow pulled past/into the "stack zone" must be pulled to the exact spot every time or larger variations of arrow speed will result than one not pulled into the stack. Of course a stacking bow might look a bit more impressive through a crony, but your track to consistency will have juusstt that much more in the way of you getting there. Top that with arrows that are too long, and, using target form, you will get exactly that, much closer to hitting target rings. I would not limit myself to only hitting stationary rings. As you know, Mr Murphy will show up, in the form of a 225# 14 pointer with 6 drop tines and of piebald/albino mix, but you know he will be trotting by you at 33.7562 yards!!!   Let you super computer do what it needs to do, just don't hamper it with roadblocks, viruses, over thinking, self doubt, and stacking bows and long arrows.    

[Charlie Lamb]

Frankly, I think you show excellent form. Just keep working at it and you WILL get better at the longer ranges.

Don't over think this. Perhaps slowing down your rhythm a little at the longer ranges will help, but don't make any big changes.

Keep shooting!! You are doing real well.
   

[khardrunner]

I just remebered the draw stats nate gave me on the bow... 50@28 and 56@30.

[swampthing]

Sounds good to me, but you are still pulling past the mechanical advantage of the Longbow's string angle, and starting to "stretch it out" like a recurve, probably why they are a touch faster. Howard never did that with his bows, and for a very specific reason.
Your scared to let it fly? You summed it up right there. target panic is already creeping in. Find a ditch, pile of sand, something somewhere where you won't loose or kill anyone with your stray shots, and "let it fly." Holding at full draw is broken rhythm and slowing your brain down, let it happen, make it happen. Smooth, calm, casual in the draw. Focus your energy like a laser at burning a hole on the spot you want to hit with your eyes!
 Hill Style.

[Looper]

It doesn't look to me like he's anywhere close to a 90* string angle. He shouldn't with a 69" bow and a 28" draw.

[swampthing]

Pause it just before his release. look at those tips in relation to the string coming down, that bow is past 90deg.

[Jon Powell]

Swampthing,

Perhaps you could post a video of your shooting so we could get a better idea of what you are describing. I know it would help me, as I'm a visual learner.

Thanks

[Molson]

[khardrunner]

Guys this is such a good discussion in my opinion. Feel free to continue to offer your opinions. I don't mind being the test dummy at all    .

I think you may have misunderstood my fear of letting loose. I dont think about that at all while Im shooting. While Im shooting i feel in control. Its more of a philisophical thing while I am discussing my shooting.

The slight whackin sound i get is occasional. Sometimes I shoot without ever havin that.

Im still curious too as to when and how I take my success at 10 yds and move it back. Also, I shoot best when I think of my form more than the spot I want to hit. How do I get to where I can focus on the spot?