HH bug got me ... Part One!

[Overspined]

Thanks!  A couple late nights!  I do a line at a time if I have to, usually after they are in bed. That's when I do my straightening, dipping, and cresting.  It's addicting, but life's too short to shoot ugly arrows from beautiful Hill bows!!

[Rossco7002]

Pavan,

Sorry to hear you're moving away from Hill style bows,I've learned a lot and really enjoyed your posts on this thread. Please keep the comments coming so we can still share in your experience.

[bicster]

Beautiful arrows! I have a small child too so it takes me about three weeks to make a set of wood arrows with all the fancy cresting.

[450 marlin]

See there is a HH Half Breed RH 62# on the Detroit craigslist this morning.....

[akbowbender]

The shooting of my NM Classic is coming together.

 

If this keeps up, and I do as well when my Misty Dawn shows up, I'll feel better about letting go of some of my R/D longbows!

[Kevin L.]

Nice grouping! Looks like you found a keeper.

[Brianlocal3]

Looking good Chuck. I was out shooting my Vixen today. This bow is a screamer and so quiet. I am having a little issue though.  

I have always shot 3U, even back to my compound days.  It does seem that even when my bow is shooting good and arrows are grouping and BH hitting where I like, I am never 100% satisfied with my arrow flight with 3U.  So I switch to split finger and they are flying perfect.  This is all AFTER bareshaft, paper and flight tuning.  If my BS and Paper show good, my flight shows wobbly.  

Is it possible for a bow to just tell you its the boss and you will shoot it the way it wants?  I know they are just wood but I truly believe my Vixen does not want to be shot 3U so I am going to switch to split from here on out.

[Overspined]

Not trying to offend, but I'm surprised people shoot any bows 3 under.  I don't doubt the accuracy a few experience, but  louder and harder to tune from what I've seen.  I don't really understand what you might gain overall by 3u. So please educate the split finger group who might not know (like me).  Also, isn't it harder to use back muscles when your draw hand is higher?  I find a difference even anchoring with pointer vs middle finger. Pointer finger in corner of mouth makes it easier to use back..?

[akbowbender]

I was having a tough time tuning all my bows. Seemed like I used to shoot so much better. After reading a post about someone switching from a shooting glove, to a tab with a spacer, I realized that's what I used to shoot. I didn't switch, but I started making sure that my pointer finger wasn't touching the nock at the start of the draw, and all of a sudden I was getting better arrow flight.

I was getting a bit frustrated with the Classic, but it wasn't the Classic, it was me! Such a relief seeing those arrows flying straight and true. Now I can just have fun shooting!

[Brianlocal3]

Matt i personally do not take any offense. The reason for 3U for me is two fold, first, its how I have been shooting since I picked up a bow at a young age. I shot my compounds bare bow, 3U.  Secondly its about shrinking point on. I am MUCH MUCH more accurate when my point is only 17" below my point of aim as opposed to 36".  Then the facts of the matter is almost all if not all of the big tournaments that don't allow face or string walking  are won are by 3U shooters and that is not an accident.  You can be much much more accurate at the shorter ranges.

I have not experienced "harder to tune" perse because for me its what are my arrows doing out to 35 yards.  NOW WITH THAT SAID, I do  notice better arrow flight with split, but since I have 24 years of shooting 3U I am NOWHERE near as consistently accurate with it.  I can not stack arrows on top of each other using split YET, I will get there, I just have to re-learn my gaps.  for ME it was all about consistently being able to touch arrows from 0-35, and I can hold my own out to 55. after that its guess work.

The noise i  could hear up close, but when I asked others to listen, they never could discern a difference.   I am going to focus on some blank bailing using split and re teach my self.

As far as back tension goes I 100% agree with you, although most 3U shooter will not.  I too anchor index in the corner of my mouth but I am going to re-learn middle finger to drop the gap using split.

[Overspined]

Be careful, Brian, not to wreck your shooting by changing up too much.  I say this because I was working on changing some fundamentals this past summer, and really screwed myself up for a while.  I barely regained some solid repeatable shooting until just before the deer season started.  I was a mess for a couple months.  I was so relieved that I pulled it together in time.  I just don't know at this point how much I can unlearn, and relearn a few key aspects I would LOVE to improve in my shooting.  Like you, 20 years of the same thing is tough to change. I'm going to try again, but take a little different approach.

[Brianlocal3]

It is a little nerve racking to be completely honest with you, but I think I will benefit from it.  I just have to learn to be faithful to my ability at those shorter ranges when I don't have my "sight" my gap.  I KNOW were my tip goes even though I do not focus on it.  Im going to just do some blank bale work for a while and focus on my form and then once it becomes second nature, ill work on putting the arrows in together consistently.  Since ill still be using split vision (gap) i don't think it should mess me up too much, I just need to re-train my gaps.

[cahaba]

One thing we have to watch out for is keeping that pinky finger out of the way. Some people lock it out with thier thumb.

Gap shooting and split vision are not the same. Split vision is being aware of where your arrow is in relation to your target without knowing the distance. Split vision is only used at longer ranges. Mr. Hill said split vision was good for follow up shots. Say the archer is shooting at 50 yards and the arrow hits low then our secondary vision knows where the arrow was in relation to the target and the archer knows to raise the arrow for the next shot without any knowlege of the distance. There is no preconcieved knowlege that the shot was made at 50 yards which is unlike gap shooting where the archer has to estimate yardage with fairly accurate judgement and then using the tip of the arrow like a front sight on a gun knowing exactly where that point needs to be.

That is one reason Mr. Hill perfected "split vision" for quick followup shots at long distances.  Mr. Shultz talks about follow up shots and how to shoot them in his film "Hitting em like Howard Hill".

This is my opinion and is not intended to flame anyone for the way they see it or for whatever "system" they use. This is only my opinion.There are several great hunters on TG that shoot gap so it does work for some.Good shootin you all.

[Brianlocal3]

Cahaba, I have a fused system of the two. I know my gaps at specific yards, but when I am shootimg make no attempt to judge yards. For myself it's a relational thing. For instance I know that ( this is in reference to my 3U gaps) for anything within a certain yardage like 15-25 my point floats around the knee of a deer. This drops it in the kill zone everytime. If its. Soccer Ball or rabbit it floats On the ground a certain site picture. It sounds more thought out than it actually is.  

Basically all I need to do is re-train my sight picture which always includes the tip of my arrow. That's how I shoot.

[David Yukon]

Chuck, good shooting!! My Classic is supposed to be here in 3-4 days, Hope I can do the same!!

[cahaba]

Brianlocal3 sounds like a good "system". Good shootin....Dave

[Overspined]

Everyone has a style, and mine is just let my solid bow arm go where it thinks it should be as i start the draw and then come back to anchor, release.  The better I just focus on a small spot the better I shoot.  The more i think or see the arrow, the wider my groups. My problem is anchoring a bit deeper than I do. It's a form of target panic. I rarely miss the spot if my anchor is more solid, and I find follow through very important.

At hunting ranges, this works.  Target shooting past 35 yds and all bets are off.  I do need to use split vision.  This is partly also a limitation of shooting heavy arrows and light bows.  I do better when I target shoot with a lighter arrow setup at farther ranges.

I have noticed the same thing with regards to less than perfect arrow flight with the index finger on the nock when I nock under, but nocking over has cleaned all that up. I highly recommend it.  I feel spine is a little less critical, and no porpoising ever.

[Brianlocal3]

That is an interesting observation about nocking Matt.  I use two nockingpoints so I guess I nock above and below HA.

UPDATE ON MY SPLIT FINGER:  This morning I went out to do some close bale work to focus on shooting split.  It is not feeling too awkward yet.  I am anchoring the middle finger in the corner of my mouth, using my first thumb knuckle (from the hand not finger tips) to lock into the jaw, and final back tension draws the feather up under my nose.  I think Ill be ready for the Indoor tournaments that start next month no problem.

[Pat B.]

There's nothing wrong with shooting 3 under, Brian..  Many fine shooters and hunters shoot three under and do quite well. I've been shooting 3 under since the early 70's and it works for me. The bow is a bit louder but there's a few dead critters that didn't seem to mind.

[Brianlocal3]

Pat,

I don't have a moral or believe issue with it, and honestly I have not been shooting 3U as long as you ,but i have been shooting 3U for 23-24 years and It has always served me well.  But since shooting American Semi-longbows, I have noticed some odd flight out of my arrows even  when I paper tune and get a hole or have my BS flying right.  But when I go to split finger I am getting good flight, so I am going to switch it up and see where it takes me.