HH bug got me ... Part One!

[Blaino]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I'm not sure it matters where, just that you DO and that it is in a reasonable place. Everyone has a different face. Find a solid, bone place...well a couple places and get a good double anchor that is repeatable.

I agree 100%. Everyone has a different style.  For instance, my cheeks don't allow me to anchor on my last tooth.

By the way you have turned me to a wood snob. Nothing shoots as good from my bow as wood!    

[khardrunner]

Those surewoods are awesome. No doubt! I wish I could get them to shoot as well at my stupid long draw. If I short draw they fly fine but I can't hit anything.

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I'm not sure it matters where, just that you DO and that it is in a reasonable place. Everyone has a different face. Find a solid, bone place...well a couple places and get a good double anchor that is repeatable.

Quote from Byron Ferguson about learning Howard's shooting method, "When I began to understand why I couldn't duplicate his method,I began making headway"
He realized his head shape was different than Howard's and that he had to anchor farther forward on his face to get the arrow right under his eye.
Unless you are built exactly like Howard odds are you're not going to have the exact same form.
And even then,I've heard that Howard's form was a result of trying to shorten his draw a little for arrow spine purposes.If that's the case why would you want to copy it if there's no need?Everyone is built different.I don't think a short muscular guy and a tall lanky guy are going to have the same form to get the shot angles correct.eye,anchor,arrow,hand,elbow.
You can use his fundementals but I doubt you'll be an exact copy.

[Nate Steen .]

Goshawkin...

exactly.  the Hill principles are just that...instruction and direction with allowances for differing physical make-ups.  I anchor with index finger on top bicuspid tooth and second finger on bottom tooth line because I can feel it more positively than just the 'corner of the mouth' and then also use my thumb along my jawbone as a second reference point.

[Nate Steen .]

khard...you just need stiffer shafts, by probably 20# overspine with 125 heads and 30# overspine with 160 heads

[khardrunner]

I tried a test kit up to 75-80 I think at full length the flew ok but not good nor consistent. Not heavy enough?

[swampthing]

That pesky bow arm, stick it out straight and it will force you to do all kinds of funny stuff to get lined up, and good luck to you on game. Go pick up a heavy duffel bag, and see how you automatically put a good bend in your arm? that is called your bicep, it will work synergistically with your shoulder and arm so that it is not just a dead hang. That is the way you hang on to a Hill. A GOOD bend in the arm. Now just raise that up and draw. do not stick it out there, or try to extend that arm out to increase your draw. Finish with a straight back motion so that the arrow is in line with your pupil. Voila', natural, point and shoot, next time you see game try them both and see what gets you on target sooner! I think you will be a believer and abandon ye target archers form.
5'11" same wingspan, strong as B/O, 26" draw.

[Brianlocal3]

Originally posted by Goshawkin:
 

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I'm not sure it matters where, just that you DO and that it is in a reasonable place. Everyone has a different face. Find a solid, bone place...well a couple places and get a good double anchor that is repeatable.

Quote from Byron Ferguson about learning Howard's shooting method, "When I began to understand why I couldn't duplicate his method,I began making headway"
He realized his head shape was different than Howard's and that he had to anchor farther forward on his face to get the arrow right under his eye.
Unless you are built exactly like Howard odds are you're not going to have the exact same form.
And even then,I've heard that Howard's form was a result of trying to shorten his draw a little for arrow spine purposes.If that's the case why would you want to copy it if there's no need?Everyone is built different.I don't think a short muscular guy and a tall lanky guy are going to have the same form to get the shot angles correct.eye,anchor,arrow,hand,elbow.
You can use his fundementals but I doubt you'll be an exact copy. [/b]

Just what I was going to quote. Thanks. I too love that book.  
And to the duffle bag stuff, I'm glad that works for ya, but I shoot more like Mr. Byron ferguson and the B.E.S.T. Bow arm posture and it works oh so well

[Nate Steen .]

Khard....
Long woodies are harder to tune because each shaft is a little different..but also they are easier to tune because each shaft id a little different.  I would try a very balanced arrow...not too tip heavy because you already have plenty of shaft weight with an arrow that spine.  Spining your arrows yourself is critical...or find a shaft that flies well with a head of 125 to  145 gr. And send that arrow to a top notch arrowsmith to spine for you and than match arrows to that.  You can add small amounts of lead to your heads to fine tune each arrow to match

[swampthing]

And don't forget the big feathers. 5.5" baby.

[khardrunner]

I'll give it a shot Nate.

Swampthing, I'm pretty happy with how I'm shooting now. Thanks anyway.

[BCWV]

Originally posted by swampthing:
That pesky bow arm, stick it out straight and it will force you to do all kinds of funny stuff to get lined up, and good luck to you on game. Go pick up a heavy duffel bag, and see how you automatically put a good bend in your arm? that is called your bicep, it will work synergistically with your shoulder and arm so that it is not just a dead hang. That is the way you hang on to a Hill. A GOOD bend in the arm. Now just raise that up and draw. do not stick it out there, or try to extend that arm out to increase your draw. Finish with a straight back motion so that the arrow is in line with your pupil. Voila', natural, point and shoot, next time you see game try them both and see what gets you on target sooner! I think you will be a believer and abandon ye target archers form.
5'11" same wingspan, strong as B/O, 26" draw.

I'm a newbie to Hill style shooting but this is dead on for me. I'm very comfortable with my Shelton now and will slide back to my old style of shooting by habit from time to time. When I do, my groups open up and let me know it. I go back to a slight bend in my bow arm and the magic returns  

[Blaino]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I tried a test kit up to 75-80 I think at full length the flew ok but not good nor consistent. Not heavy enough?

The 75-80's are the ones that I have got to shoot great.  I put a 125 head on them and I swear they fly better then my 2219 or any carbons. My bow is marked 65@30.... just courious, what weight is your bow?

[Rossco7002]

I feel like more and more of us are adding stringfollow Hills to our stable of bows. Initially I thought this may be just coincidence but after shooting my stringfollow Schulz for the last 3 months I gotta say there is DEFINATELY something to it. I don't know exactly 'it' is but I do know that on a well executed shot there is no difference to my reflexed bows BUT on a poorly executed shot the stringfollow bow seems much better at cutting me some slack and still dropping my arrow into the right place.

Anybody else see the same thing? What makes the stringfollow your profile of choice?

[Nate Steen .]

The bow isn't trying to jump past your hand upon release so you've reduced some inherent sensitivity.

[Brianlocal3]

Kyle if it's any worth I thought your form looked real good, and if your shooting good then amen brother. I have tried the fluid shooting and can on moving targets but for 3d and hunting mine is more static. So kudos to you for having the ability to do it.
I look forward to some more of your videos

[khardrunner]

I tried them all Blaino, but I had to leave them at 32" to work for my draw of 30.75. Actually I may try to cut them to 31 next time and see if that helps.

My bow is 50@28 and 56@30

[Kelly]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I tried a test kit up to 75-80 I think at full length the flew ok but not good nor consistent. Not heavy enough?

Remember the spine decreases as the length of your arrow increases past 28" so those 75-80's full length are really 55-60#.

This is the main reason why Howard developed the style and draw he used in order to find stiff enough wood shafts.

khard, you've probably said in the past but what is your draw length with a Hill style? Also your height and shirt sleeve?

[nineworlds9]

Originally posted by Rossco7002:
I feel like more and more of us are adding stringfollow Hills to our stable of bows. Initially I thought this may be just coincidence but after shooting my stringfollow Schulz for the last 3 months I gotta say there is DEFINATELY something to it. I don't know exactly 'it' is but I do know that on a well executed shot there is no difference to my reflexed bows BUT on a poorly executed shot the stringfollow bow seems much better at cutting me some slack and still dropping my arrow into the right place.

Anybody else see the same thing? What makes the stringfollow your profile of choice?

HHill himself was pretty clear that stringfollow bows were more forgiving.  Miller says so as well in his book.  I have tried both and I must say my current Hill bow, an Old Tom w/ about 1/2" to 3/4" of reflex def has a little more 'bite' than the straight or stringfollow bows I've tried.  Got a new sweetheart on the way as I type, a new to me Redman, straight profile, traded w/ Blueridge.  Can't wait to try her.

[Kelly]

Oops, was reading page 812 when responding to this quote and had yet to read your last post. Would like to know the answers to the last question though?

If your draw is really 30.75 you sure don't need 1.25 extra hanging out front because that all effects the spine. Cut them back to the absolute bare mininum and then see how they shoot. Would say you are getting close.

Are you using 5.5" fletch? Cock feather in?

Thanks, Kelly