HH bug got me ... Part One!

[swampthing]

Better words have not been recently spoken Bicster/Brianloc3.
 Let your form adapt to the shot presented to you, within reason of course.
 If you shoot targets, pick a target form. Game animals on the other hand, most don't wear paper.

[Rick Butler]

Check out my post "Hill Style bows from Two Tracks" Wow!!

[SportHunter]

That's a sweet looking bow Rick. I'll bet he sells loads of them.

[stik&string]

I'm glad this bug is turning into an epidemic and it seems like a lot of bow makers are offering a version of this great style bow. Before this hunting season, I sold off all but 1 bow. This gave me some time to build up my bow fund and after the holidays I will have some money to help buy the cure for this problem. Me being the type of person I am, I will eventually need to try one of each bowyers offering so I am asking for some help. I think I have a good start on my list of bowyers but I may have missed some, so please add any names I may have missed:

Howard Hill Archery
Bama Bows - The Tribute
Shrew Hill
J.D. Berry - Misty Dawn & Vixen
Toelke - Super D
Two Tracks - Echo

I know I left off some prominent names but I wanted to keep this list to Tradgang Sponsors.
Thanks

[subsonic]

I believe that 7 Lakes Longbows is a sponsor as well.  Mike's Hill Style bow is the Carolina Night.

[Goshawkin]

*edit* whoops,sorry,I thought he was a sponsor.

[BCWV]

Sorry, missed the sponser thing.

[khardrunner]

Try this. I've been really sick the last couple days. Hope this works.

[Overspined]

Kyle,

I'd like to take a shot here.  You are brave and generous to share your video for us to comment on. I can't remember exactly, but consistency overall is what I feel you are frustrated with. This was 1 arrow on that video, but this is what I see, and it's something I've corrected in myself as well.

I see an easy fix for consistency with your bow arm. Good news huh?  What I mean is regardless of wingspan and all, it's looking like you may be combining principles of push pull with Hill form, and it's my belief they don't mix quite like that. Just give this a try:  set your bow arm when you are ready to draw, and don't deviate with how you set it.  So either hold the bow in front of you so you know what you want the finished arm position to be, or set it at your side, but get that bow arm set and just raise it to the target as you do your swing draw.   Don't allow collapse, don't push towards the target. Get the bend you want, get the grip and all, and keep it very rigid.  With the bend, you are forced to push toward the target, yet the bow shouldn't move that way.   Also, maybe try a little less bow cant.

My guess is all that moving of your bow arm is leading to variations in arrow impact that will just go away with a rigid bow arm position.

Give it a go and see what you find...

[Goshawkin]

Kyle,Just a question.Why the exaggerated follow through with your release? I see guys doing this or they release then quickly move their hand back to their anchor point.
Both look like very calculated moves that seem to me would take your concentration away from your aiming spots.
Curious what the benefit of either of these is?

I am not going agree that Hill form involves an artificial rigidity built into the bent bowarm.  Spreading part of the draw was used by Hill at times.  The one thing that has to be guarded, is that in the process of getting to full draw with any form that the release and the bow should not have torque that throws the energy out of line. Not everyones make up is the same. Within the parameters of form, one needs to work with their own strengths and weaknesses. I do not believe that Hill adhered to strick fundamentalisms in the do EXACTLY as I do or else. John Schulz has perfect Hill form, but he looks quite different than Hill when he shoots, even though all of the form elements are there.

[gringol]

kyle,

try posting that vid in the "form forum."  I think you'll get some help there.  

I'm not sure your bow arm is so bad.  It looks solid and you seem to be holding a consistent position with it at full draw.
 
As far as the string-side follow-through goes, it looks to me like the problem is a lack of back-tension.  Your back is a little hunched when you are at anchor.  Your arm comes straight back, but at the very end you need it to start moving around.  Sort of a "J" motion.  Back and around. You want your shoulder blade on the string-side to come around more, almost make it protrude.  

I have trouble with the same thing.  It's a very subtle movement and hard to get the feel of with heavy bows, but once you start to get it you'll see a dramatic improvement in consistency.  Once you get that, the follow-through just happens and you don't have to think about it at all.  Then the release and follo-through will be one fluid movement. Your shot sequence will be much more repeatable with better back tension.

[khardrunner]

To be honest when I shoot this way, as opposed to when I was having issues a while back, I am FAR more consistent. I'm actually fairly happy with how I am shooting. I've been able to hit 9x9 inch squares fairly consistently from 30-35 yards.

Thanks for the comments and I am more than willing to continue to learn from you guys.

As for the exaggerated release, I don't feel it when I shoot. I suppose to some degree it is a byproduct of my back tension.

I can also see that I move my head back during the draw still. I'll have to work on that.

[gringol]

BTW, good form is good form.  Which is characterized by good alignment and consistency.  I don't think there is such a thing a Hill form, just good form.  Hill "style" maybe, but the basics of good form (alignment and consistency) translate perfectly between all archers, even wheelie shooters.

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
As for the exaggerated release, I don't feel it when I shoot. I suppose to some degree it is a byproduct of my back tension.

Ok,thanks. And to be clear,I don't want you to think I was picking on your form. I've just seen quite a few guys do those things and couldn't figure out why.

[Overspined]

I'll stick to posting pics of dead things, groups, and bows, but never my shooting form!  You are a brave man, Kyle!  I ridicule myself enough for everyone. I'm thinking that at 35 yds a 9" diameter group...hmm.  Seems pretty good.

I agree PAVAN, but it's worth a try if you can rule out consistency issues with a bow arm that moves a lot.  Seems like the Schultz videos and Hill vids I've seen show a pretty set bow arm, and I've found it to be very consistent.  Just thought it would be worth a try, not a defunct defect in Kyle's form.

[swampthing]

For your 30" draw you still have a few inches hanging off, what length are those arrows?

[BigJ1632]

New guy here with the HH Bug.  Are there videos or books that display and discuss the shooting form that Hill used?  I hear a lot about the grip and whatnot, but I was wondering if there was an actual source that most refer to?  Thanks!

[swampthing]

There are a couple: Hitting'em Like Howard Hill, book and DVD along with "Straight Shooting" by John Schulz, "Hunting the Hard Way" by Hill, and you tube has a few vids of Howard shooting as well.

[khardrunner]

32" full length