HH bug got me ... Part One!

[Nate Steen .]

My conversion totally to the hill technique and style as taught by Schulz brought me out of target panic many years ago.  Since then I have discovered my form is more similar to Hill in style than Schulz....if you get technical...which shows that we all perform the Hill swing draw and fluid form a little differently.  The technical side is the foundation of Hill style....you have to make it yours.  After communicating with Schulz about how I interpret the Hill form and sending John my resume and photos...he said he was glad I was holding to the true Hill style.  Does that mean I'm a carbon copy of Hill...of course not...we none are.  But discussing Hill form and function can help us all become better archers if we incorporate what works for us from his style.

I shoot low b.h. under 6"...use stiff wood arrows with big fletch cut to ride the blunt up on the shelf.  I swing draw and the shot situation dictates the rhythm and speed.  I use a hillstyle back quiver for all shooting and hunting.  I like long narrow heads and zwickeys.  I shoot a Bigshot Crossover all leather (soon to be available) for I believe its the best glove available.

I do my best to promote the true Hill style of shooting, equipment, and attitude so that it won't be lost to the younger generation of shooters.

I am a hopeless American Semi longbow romantic....

[Ben Maher]

Originally posted by Nate Steen .:

I am a hopeless American Semi longbow romantic....

Ya reckon ?

This place is better for you being so ......

The reason I am trying to "hold" a bit longer before pulling through my shot is 2fold .
A. to help my ongoing battle with TP
B. I am setting up a lighter weight hill style rig to shoot IFAA which is 112 arrows from 5 - 80 metres ... 4 arrows an end ... so I am developing my gaps ...  Hill style against all them uber heavy risered "stealth" D bows ... heck yeah ...........

Now this varies pretty much from my hunting rig , and certainly the way i shoot when afield after critters is quicker most of the time , and even with my curves I try and keep some fluidity as any defined set arm draw doesn't work well for me  ... but this process has certainly helped me get my shot process stronger and consistent...

[ i also remember reading Olympian John Magera wax ever so  lyrically about Howard and how he transferred his tension to his shoulder/ back like few have done before or since ... so whilst he is poetry in motion , and IMHO the defining form of archery before or since ,i don't believe that it was just a talent and excellent version of poke and hope that I think some believe it to be  ... no way ... I believe Mr Hill new exactly what he was doing every second the bow was in his hand ... and it came from form practice , Field and target shooting and what worked hunting .... funneled through hours and hours of drills at the bales and sand piles .........
And it sure did work just fine eh !

Nate ... quick query ... do you find you need to run a differing brace when using b-50 over low stretch ?

[Ben Maher]

[JEFF B]

way to go Ben go get em  

[Rik]

I have a friend who has hunted with traditional bows for decades. Totally Hill style, but he mostly stuck to recurves. We talk every week, and over the last two or three years my tales and stories finally got to him and he ordered a 66" Hill bow—with moose antler tips, a real beauty.

His first arrow was dead on, and it only got better from there. He told me this week that after shooting the Hill bow for the last three weeks, his form is better than it ever has been in his life.

His form has always been the classic Hill form, swing draw. No aim, no thought, no hesitation, nothing but look and shoot.

As Nate said so perfectly "casual fluid poetry in motion." Now that my friend is doing it with a Hill bow, everything has come together perfectly.

He has killed quite a few elk with his recurves, but I fear for their lives now that he has a Hill bow. Needless to say, he's grinning from ear to ear.

Now, I need a little advice from Nate.

Did I hear earlier that Sunset Hills do well with a lower brace height than other bows? I would like to give that a try. Nate, what brace height should I try? Right now it is set at 6 1/4".

I am thinking maybe my Sunset Hill wants to go to the Longbow Safari in B.C. in a couple of weeks. I love the fact that it's a take-down. Fits in my duffle bag nicely for flights to fun places.

[Nate Steen .]

Rik....for years I shot 6 1/4" but when I went below 6" the bows woke up.  I like 5 3/4- 5 7/8" with b50 or my new fav... 452 at 24 strands.  Still quiet and smooths out the bow even more and better feel for me than ts-1 fastflite.

Rik...how I do it is start at 5 1/2" and shoot.  The arrow will clank and the bow will buzz and then just go up 1/16 or two twists at a time until you hit the sweet spot.  Your spot might be 6 1/4"...won't hurt anything except maybe a rogue bear...hhmm?

[Ben Maher]

I must also say that hunting with my back quiver by necessity precludes a lot of broadhead choices ... two blades only out of my back quivers .

I have had great success with Ace 160's , Magnus 160's and STOS 160's but for me , my ol' reliable Ribtek 160's are hard to beat ... and being somewhat narrow they slide out of my back quiver ever so nicely ...

I am thinking about tuning up some arrows so that the back of the b'head hits my hand at full draw .........

ol' skool clicker ......

[ChrisM]

You fellas need to get some sleep  

[bsv]

It's hard to believe I have spent so much time and money trying to find the perfect bow for me,and never tried a Hill style until now.My new Dave Johnson fits me like a glove,I put a thicker laced on grip on her as the pig-skin was kinda thin for me,now that I learned how to grip her,I don't think I'll ever look back.Even thinking of selling my new stalker coyote to fund another Hill style,maybe a David Miller or something. I've been bitten bad!!I can't put it down. Burt

[tradlongbow]

Happy Father's Day to all the dads.

D.

[Overspined]

What's amazing to me are those with a total lack of target panic. NO anticipation of the shot, smooth, relaxed, and misses only rarely. I would love to totally give myself to Hill style, and I do with almost every aspect....almost.  I have the two problems of either can't fully reach anchor, but rarely miss. Or, get to anchor, but can't get to what I know is a solid anchor AND aim, and I hit to the right. This is mostly for targets. Hunting everything seems to come together for me.  

I still can't shoot fast and incorporate all aspects of Hill style, but I have found Matt style, like Ben and Charlie found for them.

I draw, shoulder down, and anchor just under the target spot. The string is on my brow, and then the rhomboids hold and I can smoothly pull through and the TP goes away.  I am able to focuss on the spot and hit.  If that string isn't held on the brow, no luck.  I think it just keeps me from collapsing and it's a way to give me a little interference from thinking about how I'm not going to miss, or make sure I hit that spot.

In theory, Hill style is so easy.  I've seen probably one person EVER in person able to really emulate him with any major fashion.  I sure wish I could Hit em like Howard!

[Ben Maher]

Yeah , the Hill style , with its fluidity [ not even sure if thats actually a word ] looks just so simple ...

But I think its actually quite demanding AND exacting , as such is misunderstood by many ...

But gee that low bow shoulder is important I reckon !

I beat my TP by playing the eye closing game.  Close both eyes, then the right, then close the left, then leave them both open. Drawing to anchor and then let down without shooting. When you can do it at a common target that you are normally TPing all over without an outbreak of the heebeegeebees, try a shot with your only goal being your follow through. I have to go through the ritual when I start a practice session on my back yard target, I have shot back there for too long. I have no TP when stump shooting or hunting any longer.  The odd part of mine was that with some bows, the confidence level or just the feel of the bow made the TP invisible.  Mine started when I was getting harrassed by a wheelie shooter at a 3d event, I was also trying to zone in a much lighter bow than I was used to. They were lieing on their score card like crazy as well. I got even with him a month later at a different shoot. A vendor had a 150 pound two wheel Jennings elephant bow. I showed the vendor how many different ways to draw a bow, a dozen times with each hand. The big liar grabbed that bow to show me up and ripped his shoulder loose, it made a terrible sound.

[Overspined]

PAVAN,

Cringing at that TERRIBLE sound!! What bow weights do you prefer? I shoot the 50# women's bows! for the most part. The arrows usually pass right through critters, but I sacrifice a flat shooting arrow.  

It's funny how I can draw a heavy bow without much of a problem, so long as I am not aiming at a target...curse TP!

[Green]

Will this be the week my Half Breed gets shipped?  Hope so!!  

Also sent my Jerry Hill Wildcat to one of our TG brothers for tip overlays and some other cosmetic updating....putting a FF string on the JH bow made all the difference in the world in that bows' performance and manners.  Y'all have a great week...

[Blaino]

Originally posted by Nate Steen .:
 I like 5 3/4- 5 7/8" with b50 or my new fav... 452 at 24 strands.  Still quiet and smooths out the bow even more and better feel for me than ts-1 fastflite.

Nate- is your 452 string padded?  I would think not being 24 strands....

[two4hooking]

I currently like a bh of around 5 3/4 - 6 inches but my form is a work in progress.  Anything lower than 5 3/4" and I get a red mark even under my thick bracer.

I have been finding that the more I remain true to the Hill and Schulz style the better I shoot.  I just need to forget my past habits.  

The only areas I deviate from Hill style currently are:  my wood arrows are douglas fir and I prefer (for whitetails) a large eclipse head fitted with bear bleeders (harder from the back quiver but doable), and I too use the AL crossover glove.    

Other than that it is back quiver, B50, no silencers, mercury nocks, swing draw and a bent bow arm.

I have been working with my grip and string hand lately but find if I draw real slow and try to keep the same tempo it improves everything else.  One day I might be able to speed it up without losing accuracy but for now I try to practice Slooooooow and this has helped premature loosing and improper back tension.....

[Nate Steen .]

I like the feel of a thick string and without dbl. serving...and don't need to pad loops. And they wear a long time and are quiet w/out silencers.

Most of the time the swing draw is actually pretty slow...about one second or so to reach full draw.

One thing I noticed about guys having shooting problems in the Hill style...they get more and more static in their form in trying to get accuracy...instead of just shooting as smoothly as possible, releasing as a positive anchor is reached and pulling through the shot with good back tension.  When we try to hold and make sure everything is in order before release we can fall prey to other second guessing problems.  Sometimes the answer to shooting issues is to exaggerate the casual fluidity.  Less is more....or like Hill said "too much thinking over a shot is bad"

[Mudd]

I could not agree more Nate.

As I watch some of the young men I shoot with I want to give some a tranquilizer to take away the stress and tension that they are displaying.

They swear up and down that they're having fun but it sure doesn't look it from where I'm standing...lol

One of the hardest things to get through to someone that I'm trying to teach Hill style shooting(IMHO) is...in the beginning where your arrow hits is the very least important thing that's happening right then.(IMHO, again)

Understanding that... allows for the cart to get back behind the horse where it belongs.

In the long run, yes we do care where the arrow hits but hopefully if we do our best to master form.. function will follow naturally.. the haircovered computer will run with less resistance and arrows will move to the center of our concentration.

I'm not a great wordsmith so I can only hope my opinions are clearly understood by someone...lol

God bless,Mudd

[Nate Steen .]

Mudd...someday you and me will shoot together   ....we might fall asleep because we're so relaxed though....