HH bug got me ... Part One!

[False Cast]

I spent the afternoon at the Great Lakes Longbow Invitational today and I had a great time.

First I met Mr. Templin and checked out his Jet bows. He had a photo album on his table with pictures of his big game harvests longbow style and they were impressive. He has just recently began making bows for customers but has been making bows for a while now. We talked bows and limb design for a bit. I'm not going to pretend to understand the half of it, though. His limbs have a more gentle curve from the riser to the tips while Schulz's bows had a bit more curve at the tips; especially compared to my Schulz which has very narrow, whipped tips. Speaking of, the Jet bows' tips are not as small or narrow as my Schulz. With that said, I'm not entirely sure how tip dimensions relate to shooting characteristics. I know a lot of guys rave about thin and narrow tips but in my experience it doesn't make that much of a difference in the big picture. I'm not even pretending to be an expert though.

The thing that really caught my attention about the Jet bows was their grip shape. I absolutely loved it. it was a pretty standard Hill-style grip but on the belly side it was somewhat of a flat surface; right where the meat of your palm sits, if you will. It made for an extremely comfortable and repeatable grip. I really like Mr. Templin's bow's grips.

He explained to me that for many years he shot longbows by John Schulz and Mr. John Lee - two great bowyers for sure. At some point Mr. Templin decided to take his favorite aspects of Mr. Schulz's and Mr. Lee's bows, respectively, and incorporate them into a design of his own manufacture.

I really enjoyed shooting the Jet bows. I shot three of his bows: a 67" 61#" backset model, a 67" 60#" string follow model, and a 67" 50# string follow model. I was very impressed. The grips on all of them were very comfortable and repeatable. The bows were quick and the string follow bows were crazy smooth and accurate. Granted, they were a lot lighter in draw weight than my bow (67# @26") but there was no discernible "hand shock" that I could tell. They were very light in the hand and they had nice narrow shelves without leather which is my personal preference.

With all that said, I'm nothing close to an "authority" in the Hill arena and I haven't shot a large variety of them. From what I can tell, bows are very personal tools and what works for some doesn't work for others. I just wanted to give my opinion on the Jet bows and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.

[False Cast]

I also spent a lot of time talking with Mr. Steve Turay today. It was very nice meeting him and I very much enjoyed our time talking at the shoot. He was a nice guy and very funny for sure! He shared his hunting pictures and some stories with me and they were very entertaining. Mr. Turay brought a few bows with him and had them at his booth. After talking for a while I shot some of his bows. He had a light little 50# string follow job with white glass and it was a sweet shooter for sure. Dead in the hand and silent. He had me shoot his personal 80# hunting bow and what a fine shooter that was! It really put an arrow there in a hurry. Finally, I shot a 95# rocket he had on the rack and that was a ton of fun.

It was my first time meeting Mr. Turay and shooting his Norther Mist creations. All the great things I've read and heard about his bows were confirmed. Even better was spending some time with the man himself. He really was a fine gentleman and I would not hesitate sending him my hard earned money for one of his beauties. I probably could've sat and talked longbows and hunting with him all weekend.

I know there are a lot of great bowyers out there but Mr. Turay (and his bows) really impressed me. I see (at least) one in my future. He really knows his way around a longbow.

[Pokerdaddy]

Samuel, did you try out the 57# Classic with the red stain?  Man, what a shooter!  What were your thoughts on the limb finish?

[False Cast]

Originally posted by Pokerdaddy:
Samuel, did you try out the 57# Classic with the red stain?  Man, what a shooter!  What were your thoughts on the limb finish?

I pulled it off the rack and checked it out but I didn't take it down to the range to shoot. I liked the look. Deep-red stained maple veneers under clear glass, correct?

I shot a 50# Shelton with a white belly, Mr. Turay's personal 80# Classic, and a black glass 95# Classic. I was   very  impressed with each of them.

[Mushin]

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Any thoughts on why many, [ not all] of the old timers seemed to short draw?
In a lot of the old pictures when they are at full draw the bow string is several inches away from the side of there chest, where as most modern guys the string is touching.
Some say Hill did it because of arrow spine, but I would think they had way more arrow
choice than us, wood arrows that is. Any thoughts?

[WESTBROOK]

Andrew, the only concern I would have with a red stain is the fade/discoloration potential. Red is the most prone of any color to that. But if Steve  is confident with it you should be safe.

Eric

[ChrisM]

Mushin I don't believe that I have ever seen any video of Hill Short drawing.  He always came back to anchor.  Now as far as the other "oldtimers" I suppose that some had the bad habit as some do today.

[Butch Speer]

Originally posted by Ifrit617:
I finally had an opportunity to shoot a Howard Hill Crocodile and Howard Hill Wesley special yesterday. I was absolutely impressed. I typically shoot 40-45# due to a wrist injury, but was shooting the 65# Wesley special (10 pounds heavier than I have ever shot) with no problems at all. Both it and the 55# crocodile were incredibly pleasant to shoot! I'm officially hooked! I can see in the foreseeable future easily shooting 75-80# without much difficulty if I train up to it!

Ifrit,
I have a Tembo & a Cheetah with an extra 'boo lam. Both are very smooth. I can't tell any difference as far as smoothness. I may be crazy but, I look at it is, more lams equals more glue.

I plan on purchasing a 45-50# hill style bow within the next few weeks. I am curious though the advantages of say the Wesley special over a Tembo? Do those extra two laminations really make a difference?  I am kinda tight on funds, so don't want to have to pay an extra $50 bucks if the feel is similar! Any input would be awesome! Thanks.

Jon

[Butch Speer]

Sorry for the double. It didn't include my reply. Here it is.

Ifrit,
I have a Tembo & a Cheetah with an extra 'boo lam. Both are very smooth. I can't tell any difference as far as smoothness. I may be crazy but, I look at it is, more lams equals more glue.

[Brazos]

I to have a Wesley and can't tell the difference than my other HHA bow.  Some say they like the Wesley best but I won't buy another Wesley unless some good deal on a used one falls in my lap.

[Knawbone]

Butch,  I'm far from any expert, but if you were to shoot two different HHA bows, one being a Wesley, one being some other model ( take your pick ), and shot them until they had no cast left,(theoreticly ) I think the Wesley would take the longest to lose it's cast. In other words, I think the differing factor in construction is durability. Yes, more glue lines, but I suspect the combined layering of lams lends itself in terms of integrity. This is strictly conjecture on my part.

[Moots]

False Cast,

You said that you shot Steve Turay's 80 # bow.  I'm curious.  Which model does he shoot?

[Overspined]

I've shot a lot of different models of HHA, all bamboo Wesley has had a small noticeable edge from my experience.  I think it's probably due to other design factors but it feels livelier and quicker, with less handshock.   There's a point of no gain, but more lams can be a good thing. Again, design factors begin to play a role. Go 68" if you draw 28". Then work from there.  All the bows will shoot fine, but I agree with the HHA description that the Wesley is their premium bow.  I've had them build me a 5 lam bow of my liking of wood combos and still I thought the Wesley had better shooting characteristics.  If you shoot a lot you'd probably notice but it starts to really become a matter of splitting hairs. Also, after shooting Hill style bows for a long time, perceptions of handshock and everything kind of fades as all of em have their own personality.  Even one Wesley to another identical Wesley, there may be differences in feel, which I have experienced.

[Caboo]

I wont speak for Steve but I'm rather confident he tends to hunt with his Classic.

[Overspined]

Steve has told me he hunts with his classic, whisper in the winter with gloves, self bows, and bows from other builders. I've seen his pics with a Great Northern for example. Seems he is like all of us who appreciates different bows from different bowyers.    

[False Cast]

Originally posted by Moots:
False Cast,

You said that you shot Steve Turay's 80 # bow.  I'm curious.  Which model does he shoot?

Moots,

I don't believe it was marked with a specific model designation but it was a backset straight-limbed Hill-style with a straight grip. That would make it a Classic. It was a sweet shooting bow and I'm not just saying that. Mr. Turay told me he that he makes very few bows for his own use and it was an older bow. Perhaps before the different models got their names.

[Moots]

Originally posted by Bill Turner:

My "Wesley Special" is 66", 50@28, carbon backed lambo, with ebony riser, and elk horn tips and riser overlay. Oh yea, it also has a black ostrich stitched grip. Hard to beat the clean look of ebony on a Hill bow.

Bill, that sounds like a wonderful bow.  I am considering purchasing a "Wesley Special."  Any chance you could post a picture of your bow?

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by Ron Roehrick:
Great job Nick it really looks good, I glad it went to somebody who will appreciate it. Ron.

Thanks again for it Ron, I'm very happy to have it.It shoots great with the new grip.
 

[Moots]

Overspined and False Cast,

Thanks for the information on Steve Turay's bow.

And False Cast, I read your impressions of NM bows and JET bows with great interest.  Thanks.

[Green]

Let's Welcome Magnus to our little ownership fraternity.  He'll have to provide the details, of course.