HH bug got me ... Part One!

[swampthing]

Here is a, "You Had To Know Him To Get This One"  trivia question.
If Howard used 150g broad heads on 28.75" shafts for big game.
 Did he blunts of the same weight, or did he offset the weight drop of the shorter shafts by using heavier points????

[benmmc]

I like simple and I respect experience, so I removed the pom-poms and lowered the BH to 5 7/8". Based on Craig's recommendation I had it set at 6 1/2" but I found it needed the silencers at that height. He also added that 6 1/2" was just a suggestion and to set it where it worked best for me.

I like it lower for a couple of reasons. Without the pom-poms it is quieter at this height than it was without them at the old height. My brother-in-law actually commented on how quiet it was (lower BH and no pom-poms), and he doesn't shoot with me regularly. I took that as an objective perspective and a good sign.

I was noticing the arrows were occasionally impacting the target with the nock angled to my left. Is that a sign of too much spine? My guess is that the lower BH is just more demanding of my form and release and the angled impact of the arrows was a result of errors in my release and/or form. Thoughts?

[Nate Steen .]

Since he used. 38 casings for blunts which are light. I imagine he put the blunts on lighter spine shafts because he pulled blunts all the way to the very tip.  He test shot his arrows for spine and bundled them for future use according to the group they made.

[john gilbert]

I love this thread. Tonight I couldnt miss:) I gotta woodchuck running around here. Perhaps the Redman will make meat:)
Well, maybe.

[Nate Steen .]

Ben  if you are not hearing arrow slap against the bow it could be nocks alittle too tight or arrows just a tad weak.  I saw from your photo you have plenty of arrow to shorten to stiffen them up.  I would cut one inch off a couple of arrows and see how they fly.  I personally like arrows around ten pounds over bow weight...Schulz and Hill liked stiffer arrows too...they said a stiffer arrow is more forgiving of slight shot mistakes....and they shot low  bh too

[swampthing]

10# + even when they are cut to 27" for you??  as in 75# shafts for your 65# bow

[Nate Steen .]

I cut my arrows 26 1/2 bop and with 150 gr heads I like shafts around 74-78# before cutting them down...out of 64# bows

[benmmc]

Very interesting. I was about to try to go lower in spine, since the charts all say that with shorter arrows, spine should go down. That's why I thought I was overspined.

[Charlie Lamb]

Like most things in archery everything is merely a suggested starting place, whether it's arrow spine, glove or tab, or brace height.

In all aspects you have to factor in the individual.

For brace height I usually start with the old archers fistmele... placing the clenched fist on the handle of the bow and extending the thumb.
Most of my bows shoot well and quiet when the string just touches the tip of my thumb.

But as said, it may be a little less or a little more depending on what the particular bow wants.

As far as silencers are concerned, no string is going to be totally silent... even if you put a pound of yarn on there.
The difference in the Hill style bow and every other bow is the type of noise it makes. It just doesn't seem to be a threatening noise to animals.

 If you happen to be so totally anal that you just HAVE to put a silencer of some type on the string you'll find that three or four one inch pieces of yarn will be sufficient. Just make sure to put them equidistant from the tips on each side of the string.
This will keep things balanced. Remember, this may be the simplest type of bow you can shoot but that doesn't mean it's not a finely tuned instrument.

[MT Longbow]

Well  fellas, pleas don't forget to vote in the poll I have in the pow wow , I just TTT, so it should be there for you.

I just spent a few good days shooting my HH Robin Hood string follow that I installed the SBD 10 strand FF, after the other string was getting frayed, and I just decided to not shoot it with the silencers, it was different as I said before but after all the shots the brace height is at 5 3/4inches and is not even really noticeable , just like Nate said.

I just replaced the string on my backset Wesley special and set the BH to 5 7/8" and will shoot it tomorrow with out any silencers.   I expect more of the same thing.  Not very noticeable.  

That's why I came up with the poll just to see what HH shooters were doing for the majority of you.

Thanks again to Nate for giving me some good advice.

While I agree that one can get by with higher spines with a crisp release using cedar shafts, I do. I think it may be worth pointing out that i have seen more cases that having someone shoot lighter spines when they have that 'loggy' arrow flight problem, shows an improvement. This shows up quicker with metal and carbon arrows.  
The large diameter thin walled aluminum sizes are fussier than the old narrow thick walled shafts.  I hate the idea of having extra long arrows just to get them to fly. Actually talking with John's wife on spines, she recommended that I should have been using a ten pound lower spine for my poundage and draw length. Then when John remembered the particular bow, he took the phone agreed that I could get by with stiffer arrows. He seemed to suggest that his string follows had a lower spine requirement than his glassed reflexed models by more than what I was thinking at the time.  But the conversation went from there to where it would be a good place to hunt whitetails, without fighting for access and still have some elbow room.

[3Feathers]

Been playing around with the BH on my wesley and have it at 6 1/8 and it seems to give just a neat hum.Had it at 6 1/2 and it was louder than now.Going to keep it at around 6in. or slightly under.I did shoot a 665gr. arrow and it was silent.

[Lambow]

Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
For brace height I usually start with the old archers fistmele... placing the clenched fist on the handle of the bow and extending the thumb.
Most of my bows shoot well and quiet when the string just touches the tip of my thumb.
 

I like to use the old archers "fistmele" also. It's an easy way to measure in the field.
I measure mine to the bottom of my thumbnail, which is approximately 5 5/8 to 5 3/4

I can eyeball a nocking point pretty good, but I'd rather use a square to make sure it's 1/8 above center.

[Overspined]

Alright Nate, another question!  I started nocking the arrow above the string nock not too long ago.  Is that where you nock?  Where do most of you guys nock?  I think my arrows generally fly cleaner nocked above and don't intend to change, but what is a normal measurement with a bow square for about where it should be?  I my nock point is 1/2" above square to the shelf.  In other words the bottom of my arrow nock is at 1/2" above square to the shelf.

[MT Longbow]

Well , I'm no expert but I nock below, and the bottom of my nock is 1/8 inch above square, seems to work well for me on all my bows.  I like to nock under because I get good flight and also if I have n arrow on the shelf nocked I can hold my loaded arrow with my bow hand index finger on the top of the arrow and it pushes the nock end of the arrow up into the nock . This holds the arrow so I'm ready to just grab the string with my shooting hand and let er rip.  works great for birds and quick shots without having to keep my fingers on the string all the time.

But I'm sure other nock above as well.

[Lambow]

A Mercury speed nock is one quarter of an inch wide on the string.
If nocking below and wanting to be one eighth from center, you set your nocking point three eights above to compensate for the arrow nock.

For nocking above, there's no compensating for the string nock in relation to where the arow nock will be.

Most Hill style longbows do best at one eighth above center.

Howard Hill nocked above, due to getting the arrow on the string faster....as many other archers do for the same reason.

[khardrunner]

Nocking above also prohibits gravity from sliding the arrow down the string after release. I watched that happen in some hi speed film. The one time it moved a full half inch down the string through the shot!

[ChrisM]

I played with lowering the BH and what I found was that My arrows started hitting way high at 15 yrds.  Now I made sure everytime that I adjusted my BH that my nocking point was the same.  Just wondering what could have been happening.

[ChrisM]

 
Never mind what I said.  On a whem after reading the parts about spine I wondered if I was indeed underspined.  So I did 3 things.  I took off the silencers, Mover the nock down to where the arrow was above, then I changed out my 160gn heads to 125.  One was a blunt and one was a zwickey eskimo.  Normaly I don't change so much at once but on a whem I did it.  Oh I also moved the BH from 6.5 to 5.75".  Bang Perfect flight to where I was looking and the arrows were hitting so close together that I started shooting the broadhead first so it wouldn't cut the feathers on the blunt.  Well it was just as quiet as with the silencers and had no string buzz like it did at the higher BH before the silencers.

[swampthing]

Bang! Ya Babe. Running 5.5" over my way with my 66"er
  125g on wood. Good to go. If I get to hunt Moose I'll use 70#, not mortar weight arrows.
  Deer, Turkey, and Stumps, 70# gets pretty expensive arrow wise.