HH bug got me ... Part One!

Nate......bears?  

[Owlmagnet]

Thank you, Nate. I was hoping you would offer your insight into this. So, I guess there is no such thing as a free lunch, and "magic tillers" cannot overcome basic physics!

Ah well, hit me, beat me, MAKE me shoot a 66" longbow.... (Not a fate worse than death, when you think about it!)

Man, I love this thread!

[Knawbone]

Just what I wanted to here Owl, I also draw 26" and was woundering the same thing about so called optamum bow length for draw length. My 68" WS shoots great, but I can't help wanting a 66". The question is does two in. make that much difference?

What do some of you more experienced think?

[Ben Maher]

I draw 26 1/2 - 27" and for my string follow bows I get them made at 66" and for my reflexed bows I get them made at 68" ...
for my 'target' Hill style bows I get them made at 70 " .....

[Ray_G]

I am drawing 26" and my Sunset Hill is a 64" bow.  It shoots sweetly and I do not feel any "shock", if one categorizes that as pain or teeth rattlin'.  Just a very mild bump - same as I have felt on R/D bows.  So, it will depend on your bowyer's design and how the bow gets tillered, IMHO.  

Knawbone, I would think that Ben has a good formula there for Hill style bows.  I use my Sunset Hill as a hunting tool but practice with it and it feels the same to me.

Good Hunting!

[dragonheart]

26" draw for me and 66" longbow.  I know a guy that really knows how to tiller a bow well.  I will post some photos later.

[Knawbone]

Yea, I don't feel any shock from my hill and even if I did, it wouldn't matter as long as I'm shooting it well. I too, have R/D bows that have more hand shock than my Wesley.I am seriously thinking about having a HH Cheetah made to my preferences. Thanks for your imput guys.

[Rossco7002]

Both my Half Breed and my Cheetah are 66 inches and I tug them back to a true draw length of 25.5. I did have a Wesley Special that was 68 inches and although it shot great for me it did feel a bit 'bouncier' on release than my current two. VERY smooth though on the draw though.

Originally posted by Ben Maher:
I draw 26 1/2 - 27" and for my string follow bows I get them made at 66" and for my reflexed bows I get them made at 68" ...
for my 'target' Hill style bows I get them made at 70 " .....

Same here...I draw a tad less than 27" and find a 66"er is just perfect with string follow,  I would have stuck with 68" (nice) but Nate talked me into 66 due to the physics/design.  Glad I listened to him.

For almost 8 months I shot a 69" HHA Half Breed exclusively.  I shot it well enough but it was not nearly as "pointable" (natural) as my 66" Sunset Hill.

[Knawbone]

Thanks Rossco, do you feel a substantial { or partial) difference in performance with your 66" bows. And do you have a favorite between the two.

[Knawbone]

Thanks Nate and all, 66 inches it is.

[Rossco7002]

Knawbone - i definately prefer the 66ers to the 68. They just feel a bit crisper and snappier if that makes any sense?

Ask me to choose a favorite between the two 66 inch bows - almost impossible. One is 45# and the other 54# so it's a debate over pinpoint accuracy vs more power..... The only answer is shoot'em both!

[ron w]

I have a 66" Halfbreed @ 45#, I draw 29". Mine is a string follow with the short riser. Works great!!

[toddster]

Morning guys, well I tried again using back quiver.  I have one from Howard Hill archery and like it but don't think it's for me.  After using it awhile each time, I feel a pain in my right shoulder (right handed).  I know it isn't from shooting bow, because when I shoot without it no pain.  Is it that the quiver isn't made for me and reaching way to far?  Guess I need to Email the Great Nate and have him make me one.  Any other Hill followers found this problem?

[Bud B.]

Is the pain in the joint? Or surrounding muscles?

I am ultra-unflexible and need a second strap (3 point contact) for my back quiver to keep it in place, plus, it does take a while to train yourself to use and get comfortable with a back quiver.

Having said that, I am trying to train myself to get away from the 3 pt. straps. I have a large piece of leather that I can make two quivers from. But the consistency of the arrow nocks being in the same place when I reach back is nice with the 3pt hookup.

If you look at some of the old photos and videos of how Howard Hill wore his you'll see he had the strap that came around to his lower back close and nearly into his left armpit area.

Photo three on this link is a good example.

   http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=87;t=000003  

And the Milwaukee 1937 video in this link shows him using the quiver, again, with lower strap near his armpit. Look closely at about 2-3 seconds after the reel starts.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=87;t=000002

And man is he smooth in all aspects of his style of shooting.

I still have a looooong way to go.

Stick it out a while if you can.

[dragonheart]

http://www.americanleathers.com/questionpage/QA.html

Check out this information above.  I bump the bottom of my quiver with my bow hand, grasp the arrow nock and as I withdraw the arrow the gravity pulls the quiver down as the arrow leaves the quiver.  If you are shooting extra long arrows for your draw length this can be an issue.  

The quiver needs to be sized to you.  This entire style is about fit and function.  I really like a "Hill" back quiver now more than ever.  I am far more skilled at using it.  

For me, that came with practice and commitment to use this style quiver.  It is basically the only quiver I use now.

[Owlmagnet]

I never met Mr. Hill, nor am I a scholar of his life and times. Yet, over the years, I think I have a growing appreciation of his pragmatism. He seemed to a very good, practical reason for every aspect of his equipment, every nuance of his shooting style, and of course, his bows speak for themselves!

It took me several weeks to even begin to get comfortable with a Hill-style back quiver, with the arrows held closer to the point of my right shoulder, rather then immediately behind my right ear. A couple of years later, I have to say that I wouldn't want to carry them any other way.

I am currently trying to come to terms with one of the Deluxe Howard Hill Archery Gloves after several decades of using very thin, very flexible Damascus-type gloves. After one week, my shooting still resembles a slow motion train wreck from beginning to end. No control. Apparent hand shock from out of nowhere. Pain in my bow shoulder. Completely lost my anchor. Arrows going everywhere--and every once in awhile, a breathtakingly perfect shot, or two....

Bud B's suggestion to "Stick it out a while if you can", is really resonating with me.

"I'm tryin', Bud, I'm tryin' !!

[dragonheart]

Owl,

Have you tried a big shot glove?  It might be closer to the string feel of a thin glove.  I made a Hill style glove recently that exposed the tips of my fingers more for a better feel at anchor.  Jerry Hill also recommended this and he states that Howard's gloves were also such that the tip of finger was at the end.

Here is a thread about the Hill glove.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=085666#000000

[dragonheart]

Here is a video where you can see how he withdraws the arrow from a back quiver by using his bowhand to push up on the bottom of the quiver.  

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALxH2-pwOQ&feature=relmfu

[Owlmagnet]

dragonheart,

No sir, I haven't tried a Big Shot. Thank you for the link on the Hill glove. I'm on it...