HH bug got me ... Part One!

[58WINTERS]

Brazos
My Hill Wesley likes 2016 29" BOP with 200 grains up front 50# @28 I draw 27-1/2.  The same bow arrow combo worked well @ 54# @ 28 before I had Craig shave the weight down.  Currently likes  Surewwod firs 28-1/4 bop parallel 11/32 with 125 Zwickey Eskimos 47-50# spine.  All arrows have 5-1/2" 3 fletch nocked above nock point and shot cock feather in.  Excellent flight.

[3Feathers]

Got a new Hill today the Ruffed-Grouse that was in the classifieds for a while.How high do you set your string nock 3/8 or????????

[Nate Steen .]

Brazos...to reply to your post about spine,

you indicated what the bow weight was at 28" (have you verified this?) and what the arrows were bop.  However, nowhere do I read what your actual draw length is when shooting, not drawing in front of a mirror or friend,  and what the actual bow weight is at that draw.  That is the critical part.  Only then can correct arrow spine be evaluated.

I just got back from the North American Longbow Safari.....longbows of every shape and size where there.  Got to shoot with Bob Burton and talk Hill stuff which was neat....

however,  I watched alot of shooters, and the majority have arrows sticking out many inches in front of their bows.  The nice fellow I shot with for two days chided my shooting companion for having arrows too short...(he was drawing the broadhead 1/2" from the back of the bow)  while the "chider" told me his bow was 58# @ 28", he had arrows 29" bop and when he shot there was at least 4" of arrow sticking out....to me that means his draw was about 25", his bow weight around 52# and his arrows were severly underspined.  He had the typical arrow wobble if his form wasn't absolutely perfect.  This scenario is extremely typical of trad shooters today.  no wonder people can't get wood arrows to shoot well.

[Charlie Lamb]

I agree totally Nate! It seems that many if not most of today's archers are afraid of over drawing their arrows. Of course the addition of a lot of extra arrow length is going to adversely affect selection of proper arrow spine not to mention impact on good and stable arrow flight. Ultimately those factors affect accuracy and the lack thereof.

While Howard Hill advocated fairly short arrows and most interpret that as his inability to find stiff enough shafts, I question that logic.

I personally believe there were other factors involved.

[Overspined]

I think it is pretty easy to take a couple arrows with the desired broadheads and start shooting them to tune. I start with them a little long and work them down until they are lasers. I'll also play a little with the nock point, starting either high or low and changing it until everything is perfect.  I use bright fletched and I can see the wobble, or can consistently see that they shoot right (weak for RH), or left which I typically don't experience because I start with weak shafts and I am careful not to cut them too short. The spine calculators I am sure are close, but it's also fun to figure it out.  I think it's hard to beat wood arrows with the glue on tips for ease of precise tuning and changing things. For aluminums I usually just convert the wood combo to aluminum size.  I think 2016 are about a 62# spine.
For me, a 55-60# shaft with a 200 gr point at 27 1/2" is good for a 50# hill bow.  I draw up to 27", but more commonly 26 1/2".

Having shot trad for 20 years I agree with the post above that a huge number of archers don't draw near what they think they do on targets as opposed to just drawing to check length. Consistency is key to arrow tuning.

 I figured out speed difference of about 1" of draw length on a chrono and found I lost 4 fps.  If I can hit the spot and have great flight, why would I worry about that insignificant loss? I shoot 68" bows and the difference in limb movement is very small at a 27 or 28" draw.

[Ron LaClair]

Nate, you mean like this?...    :rolleyes: ....  

   

[Goshawkin]

Holy cow that looks like a broadhead on a broom handle!!! What's the draw weight?

[WESTBROOK]

Prolly made Nancy mad when Ron cut off her good broom to make that arra.    

Eric

[Gil Verwey]

No hand shock in that bow with that arrow!

[khardrunner]

I'm really interested in what the heck it was you were planning to shoot with that arrow!

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I'm really interested in what the heck it was you were planning to shoot with that arrow!

I'm remember him mentioning Moby Dick awhile back in this thread!!!!!!!!!!  :eek:

[Nate Steen .]

yeah Ron...it looks like you were ahead of your time for sure....lol

[Ron LaClair]

I made that arrow just for the heck of it. 3/4" dowel, I forget what the steel tie on broadhead weighed but it was heavy. The bow was made by Ron Maulding, 104# I was drawing it a full 28", the arrow was 36". It looks impressive but it actually didn't fly worth a hoot...   :D

[Kelly]

Originally posted by sunset hill:
Brazos...to reply to your post about spine,

you indicated what the bow weight was at 28" (have you verified this?) and what the arrows were bop.  However, nowhere do I read what your actual draw length is when shooting, not drawing in front of a mirror or friend,  and what the actual bow weight is at that draw.  That is the critical part.  Only then can correct arrow spine be evaluated.

I just got back from the North American Longbow Safari.....longbows of every shape and size where there.  Got to shoot with Bob Burton and talk Hill stuff which was neat....

however,  I watched alot of shooters, and the majority have arrows sticking out many inches in front of their bows.  The nice fellow I shot with for two days chided my shooting companion for having arrows too short...(he was drawing the broadhead 1/2" from the back of the bow)  while the "chider" told me his bow was 58# @ 28", he had arrows 29" bop and when he shot there was at least 4" of arrow sticking out....to me that means his draw was about 25", his bow weight around 52# and his arrows were severly underspined.  He had the typical arrow wobble if his form wasn't absolutely perfect.  This scenario is extremely typical of trad shooters today.  no wonder people can't get wood arrows to shoot well.

Back when I was in the custom arrow business the most difficult item for me to overcome was finding the actual draw length when shooting of the customer. 95% of them always thought their draw length was many inches more than it actually was. The only sure way I've found to find ones actual draw length when shooting was to have someone watch them over many shots so the shooter was not thinking about draw length but just concentrating on shooting. Most were 2" shorter and when dealing with snap shooters(those releasing while still drawing back-never reaching anchor) are 2-4" or more shorter than they think.

[Brianlocal3]

Why do I not hear of the Bama Hunter much in this thread. It looks like a Hill style bow to me. What is it that it is not considered a Hill Bow? It is a straight limbed ( slight reflex or backset) bow that can come straight dished or locator grip. Can someone answer me this.

[bulldog18]

Brianlocal3, the Bamabow is an american flatbow. The width of the limbs is wider than the hill style and the grip on mine is also a wider version than on my hill.

Kelly, I have seen the same thing and at times have suffered from the same problem. One good way to control draw lengths is to shoot net length target and blunt tipped arrows. According to the charts the arrow needs to be the next lower spine, but I have found that in most cases with cedar arrows they fly right on even if they are the same spine as broadhead arrows with a half inch for finger clearance.  This is more difficult to do with graphite and metal arrows.  Aluminum arrows with a fatter diameter get stiff quick when getting cut shorter.  Wood gets stiffer as well, but there is magic in the arrow flight when the point is pulled right into the bow

[khardrunner]

Interestingly, when I was shooting RH my draw was shorter at about 27" measured using a close pin at the front of the riser. But when I started shooting LH and was able to use a healthy left shoulder, my draw increased to near 30". This is even with a hill style bow and grip! I think I get the ILF recurve back a bit further but not much.

By the way, I know for a fact I'm drawing that far as I can feel the aluminum collar from the arrow on the bow shelf when I draw it back. This is with full length carbons!

[Brazos]

Since we are back on the subject I started a few days ago, my actual draw is 27-3/4 to 28".  My Wesley Special I bought about 10 + years ago I ordered with a 29" draw @ 60#.  I realized after all the time I spent measuring prior to my order was a waste of time as my draw did shorten up.  My new bow I had it made using 28" @ 50#.

[khardrunner]

Can't believe the Dave Johnson and Dave Miller bows have been sitting this long on the classifieds here! Right Hand shooters should be all over those!