I have made a bunch of my own variation Torges seats. My goal was to get them to settle in better without squeaking and creaking. Some of the trees did not like the regular Torges, the rope would slip and if I stood up they would fall. I thought that I could leave them for a few days at a time on public land, eventually they all got taken. I have a srarp on Grizzly seat, it works good as long as the tree is leaning the right way and has some regularity, so that it sits straight. I have a Nifty seat, very convenient, but I have fallen over backwards when turning to take an up hill shot, they need a tree to lean against and an extra pad to make them comfortable. I found that my back was in better shape when hunting over a mile from the car, if I used a Huntmore. The trip back after sitting on the Nifty seat for a long period was painful. The Big Jim seat, although it needs something to lean against is working very good for me. If I were to plant myself in a natural cedar shrub cover situation, the Huntmore would be better, but in combination with Bush in a Bag and a basswood tree cluster the Big Jim seat is hard to beat. Hen turkeys don't seem to see me, but where are the toms? Maybe tomorrow.