Wood Shafts?

[JamesKerr]

So I've been shooting for close to a decade now and the one experience I've never really had is making and shooting my own wood arrows. I really want to get into this now. I love the smell of cedar, in fact one of my stands is in a cedar tree and I would just love to start making my own wood arrows. The only problem is I have not clue where to begin. I would prefer to use a widely available wood shaft that is not too hard to work with but makes a fairly durable arrow. My primary bow that I shoot is a Black Widow PL that is 60 lb. @ 28" and I draw 27.5". The bow is cut to center with a 1/16" thick leather strike plate. What spine and type of wood shafts would everyone recommend?

[fujimo]

cedar is great- tried and tested.
 but personally i prefer sitka spruce
highest strength to weight ratio of all woods.
i can get a lighter shaft, and use a heavier point- thus increasing the FOC, without having an overly heavy completed arrow.
high FOC, as we all know has added advantages
 just my .02c

[Orion]

Assuming you have a low stretch string on the bow and shoot a head of 125-150 grains, 11/32 cedars, sitka spruce or doug fir spined 70-75# and cut to about 28-1/2 or 29 inches BOP should work.  May be able to shoot 65-70#.  Wouldn't hurt to get a test kit starting at 65# and up.

These are your numbers for a 65 pound cedar shaft with a a 135 grain point and cut to 28.5".
64.1

Dynamic Spine

64.2

Dynamic Spine

These two numbers should be nearly equal (within 2#).

Fine tuning can then be done by adjusting the bow's brace height.

If the arrow is slightly weak (lower dynamic spine) for what the bow needs, then lower the brace height.
If the arrow is slightly stiff (higher dynamic spine) for what the bow needs, then raise the brace height.
Calculations below are based on the arrow information entered below

Arrow Total Weight (grains) 525.1

Arrow Specific Weight (GPP) 9.1

Front of Center (FOC) % 11.1

Arrow Speed (ft/sec) 191.2

Arrow Energy (ft-lbs) 42.6

There are various places that have good directions, Wapiti has good info about which way goes up, they also have excellent cedar shafts.  There is no loss in accuracy if you go simple when coating a cedar arrow.  Some prefer the quick drying water based poly, I use it for my small game arrows, I use Watco stained oil for my premium tapered arrows that will get broadheads, but it takes three wipe on coats a a sunny warm couple of days to get them to dry.  Since I love small game hunting so much, my most treasured arrows tend to be cheap parallel cedars that fly good.  I can slap a dozen together for around $50 with the good parallels and less with the cheap shafts.  A lot can be said about durability, but if arrow loss is figured in and one tends to not want to take a shot because an expensive arrow may be lost, it kind of makes the cheap shaft that you have no qualms about losing worth more.

[JamesKerr]

I am shooting 160 grain broadheads so I assume that just like carbons and aluminums I would need a heavier spine shaft than with a 125 grain point?

These are the numbers with an 80 pound  23/64 cedar 28.5" with a 160 grain point. 64.1

Dynamic Spine

64.1

Dynamic Spine

These two numbers should be nearly equal (within 2#).

Fine tuning can then be done by adjusting the bow's brace height.

If the arrow is slightly weak (lower dynamic spine) for what the bow needs, then lower the brace height.
If the arrow is slightly stiff (higher dynamic spine) for what the bow needs, then raise the brace height.
Calculations below are based on the arrow information entered below

Arrow Total Weight (grains) 550.1

Arrow Specific Weight (GPP) 9.5

Front of Center (FOC) % 12.9

Arrow Speed (ft/sec) 186.8

Arrow Energy (ft-lbs) 42.6

If you are stuck on that 160 grain head, you may want to consider Surewood fir shafts.  A little bit heavier but remarkable quality.  80 pound cedars are sometimes harder to get.

[JamesKerr]

Another question, how do you tune wood shafts? Can you bareshaft tune them or do you paper tune or tune using broadheads?

[FlintNSteel]

One tip is that you need to learn how to straighten them.  Most shafts will need to be worked before beginning the build process as you need a straight shaft to get tapers right.  And it's best done before any finishes are applied so as not to mar a completed arrow.

There are lots of methods, but personally I like to hook straighten them as they tend to stay straight better when done that way, IMO.  You can look this process up on the internet, but in short, you just use a small metal hook...I use a metal hook you can get in any hardware or big box store with threads on one end.  Look down the shaft or roll it on a flat surface to find a "high" spot.  Put the hook over that area on the high spot and gently rub it with a few strokes.  Recheck and repeat as needed ovewr the length of the shaft.

This process relieves stress in the wood by breaking down the fibers in the wood creating the tension that warps the shaft.

You'll have a lot of fun learning the craft. Enjoy!

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by JamesKerr:
Another question, how do you tune wood shafts? Can you bareshaft tune them or do you paper tune or tune using broadheads?

Paper tuning is my preferred method.  Bareshafting works, but be prepared to break some shafts; wood doesn't like hitting targets at an angle.  Paper tune from 6-10 feet and you will see quickly where you need to go.  

One of the advantages to wood is that it is available in pretty much any desired spine and weight, so you can choose the arrow length, point weight and finished weight you want and find the shaft spine and type that gives you what you want.  A set of good test arrows is the best way to find that spine and a very valuable tool for a wood arrow shooter.

For a 29 BOP arrow and a 160 gr point, I estimate your spine needs to be about 70 lb.

The 3 rivers calculator seems a bit stiff to me, but i have no experience with your bow.  At six feet for paper testing seems too close to me.  Would the arrow still be in an "S" curve?   We do it at 12 yards.   I recently read that someone from Black Widow suggested tuning with long shots.  What I look for with wood shafts is that the arrow comes off the bow clean, has no radical initial flight, then stays online with stable feathers rotating around the nock flight.  I split image aim at near point on, it is easy to see the arrows tendencies.  Making a test set is always good, shoot them at a range where you can watch them fly, the correct one will show itself.

[jleidy]

I shoot 80-85# Surewood douglas fir shafts out of my 64" 55# Maddog Mountaineer Longbow. I draw 27.5".
They are cut to 29.25 BOP
They weigh 725 grains total hunting arrow weight.
That is with a 190 grain cutthroat 2 blade broadhead mounted to a 75 grain woodyweight for total of 265 grains up front.
19%FOC
Should blow through a bull elk this September hopefully.

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by pavan:
The 3 rivers calculator seems a bit stiff to me, but i have no experience with your bow.  At six feet for paper testing seems too close to me.  Would the arrow still be in an "S" curve?   We do it at 12 yards.   I recently read that someone from Black Widow suggested tuning with long shots.  What I look for with wood shafts is that the arrow comes off the bow clean, has no radical initial flight, then stays online with stable feathers rotating around the nock flight.  I split image aim at near point on, it is easy to see the arrows tendencies.  Making a test set is always good, shoot them at a range where you can watch them fly, the correct one will show itself.

Interesting, I find 10 yards to be too far.  It seems the fletching has already started to straighten the arrow and I can't get a definitive read on what is happening.  The little bit of flex the arrow is going thru early off the bow doesn't seem to give a false reading in the paper.  I can still get bullet holes at 6 feet.

[Rick Richard]

Surewood fir shafts are more durable than any cedar, but the best in my opinion is cane. Someone on a previous post called it 'natures carbon'.

[Don Stokes]

I shoot woods, and I bare-shaft into a soft foam block that doesn't break the shafts. I shoot at short range until I'm close and then back up a bit, but no more than 10 yards. I'm shooting an Archery Traditions Patriot II recurve this year, pulling it to about 63# at 29", and it wants 90-95# shafts at 30" length with 160 grain Snuffers. This recurve shoots much like the Black Widows, skinny string and no added weight from heavy string silencers. I don't use a bow quiver; if you do, you can back down one spine class. The bow moves differently with the weight of the quiver on it. I tune to very slightly nock high for the best results, using a 125 field point.

[Sam McMichael]

Making serviceable wood arrows is not hard, especially with the instructional threads and videos here and on other sites. Just do it! Pretty arrows will take longer. When mine get pretty, I'll let you know how much longer it takes.