"The Push - A Traditional Archery Film"

[goobersan]

    Just might give this a try. Thanks for posting      

[Tim in Wa.]

Thanks for the video. That is more information in one place thanI have ever seen.
 I can't wait to try it
Tim

[fujimo]

thats very interesting- warrants a try- just one question- how does your finger placement on the string- effect the tiller of the bow- there always seem to be so much concern  about tiller with split versus 3 under- this is a lot more exaggerated now!

[ThePushArchery]

Fujimo, it does impact tiller and preloads the lower limb more than the top at full draw.

Typically when bareshafting it requires a higher than normal nocking point that will help bring the tiller impact back to normal.

some bows however play really nicely with the fixed crawl within the standard nock height range. Just gotta try and see how the bows react. Don't be alarmed if you have to bring a certain bow to 0.75" high for nock height.

Good luck, it's a blast playing down the string!!!

[fujimo]

so should one set the string anchor, say at the middle of the bow( perpendicular to the shelf) then adjust the arrow nock accordingly to get the correct POA?

[Lowrider]

Excellent video. Wish I would have had all of this information when I started out. Very informative and professionally done.

[ThePushArchery]

Fujimo, I think I follow what you're asking, but I would say no. Typically when setting up a non-ILF bow for a fixed crawl (read that, a bow without tiller adjustment) I start the arrow nock set at 3/8" high.

Then I find my 25 yard fixed crawl.

When I am ready, I start bare shafting from that set up. If my bare shaft has me adjusting my nock height, I'm also following those adjustments with my 25 yard crawl nock set. It's a little bit of an iterative process.

But if you're shooting with a tab it's a lot simpler. Simply count the stitches once you find your crawl distance. Then simply crawl to that spot (without the crawl brass nock applied) when bare shafting. If the bare shaft has you adjusting your nock height, then move the nock set, place the tab against the arrow nock, make the crawl to your 25 yard stitch, shoot the shot.

Once your bare shaft is flying good, and your nock height is set, then I apply the brass fixed crawl nock.

[fujimo]

that sounds good mate- gives one a starting point
cheers
wayne
 awesome video by the way- had to kinda hop through it- but later tonight i will have some private time to watch it - and really absorb
 thanks again

[fujimo]

so here another question- say i build a glass bow- figure out the crawl nock point- then retiller the bow for even limb timing- now that will probably move the crawl nock position, but then i can adjust that accordingly , and re-adjust the tiller if need be and so on until the tiller, the POA and the weight all marry at the right point.
did i phrase that ok?

[ThePushArchery]

Wayne,

Hypothetically, one could do that. But that seems like a ton of work to get evenly timed limbs through a custom tiller end bow. If you end up wanting to shoot different weight or length arrows out of that bow sometime, then the crawl will then have to change, putting the bow out of timing again.

I've string walked on a high volume of different types on non-ILF bows, and have not found a time where the timing was so far off that I would be concerned with the bows integrity, accuracy, or noise level.

I've found that simply adjusting the nock height higher will get the limbs close in timing.

But I would be curious to hear your results of laminating and finishing a negative tillered one-piece bow!!

To be honest with you, even my ILF bows that I am string walking or shooting with a fixed crawl are set and shoot best at even tiller (read that, tillered for 3 under on a standard laminated bow). If a certain set of ILF limbs tend to play nicer with a negative tiller, the most I've ever had to go negative is 1/8" negative tiller, max.

The tiller on a standard laminated bow is something I've never paid attention to to be honest. Tillered for 3 under or split finger (even or slightly positive respectively) it really doesn't matter. The nock height adjustment that your bare shaft directs you to adjust is sufficient enough to get your bow shooting phenomenal and quiet.

Hope that helps.
Matt

[fujimo]

good thoughts- thanks Matt.

there are a few guys over on the bench- that have developed a simple yet effective system for tillering all bows for equal limb timing- i know it is an old concept- but i can attest to the fact that their system works. i have a bamboo backed osage /yew trilam- #50 at my draw- that shoots a 535 grain arrow at an average 174 fps.
as i understand it the equal limb timing really assists with a smooth draw, limited hand shock, super and i mean SUPER quiet- and really improved predictability in the shot. now we all know this works- but just shooting a bow that has specifically been built and tillered with full focus on the balanced timing, has truly made me a convert.
i am not a fps chaser- and i cant say this for sure- but surely when there is no excess energy lost due to vibration (hand shock and noise) surely that would equate to more energy imparted to the projectile?

so the short answer is yes- i think i would like to try this shooting system, and also like to try it on a bow with tiller balanced specifically to suit this sytem- just to feed the demon- nothing else   :D

however i wont be doing anything- until i have shot and learnt the system, and have paid my dues- not trying to re-invent the wheel here- or be a smarta$$. just getting my head around it all.

great effort- and thanks for bringing this to us
 cheers
wayne

[memo]

Excellent work on the film. Very well presented and explained everything clearly. Will try a few things out from it, thanks for going to the effort to make this. You're going to help a lot of people.

Very well put together instructional video!!!!

Bisch

[JR Williams]

Thanks for making this video, very well done. My two big advancements in my traditional shooting were:

 1. Learning and putting proper form into practice. I did this after just shooting and ingraining bad habits for about 3 years.

2. Going to a fixed crawl about 3 years ago. This took me from being happy to hit the kill zone, to being able to hit a specific part of the kill zone.

I shoot a 25yard fixed crawl from 2 different MOABs, and a Tiburon. I shoot canted. I had a pretty hard time trying to manage my gaps and now my gaps to 30 yards are between 6 to 8 inches, it also made my gaps seem flatter since I am taking advantage of the flattest parts of the arrow trajectory within my hunting distance.

Now everyone is different so it may not work for everyone but I was never happy with my accuracy shooting instinctive, I had a hard time managing gaps while gapping and I also didn't like thinking about yardage, but my accuracy was good with gapping. The fixed crawl gave me the accuracy I was looking for without having to deal with yardage or large gaps.

If you wanna try it just go out one day and give it a whirl. Slide your tab or glove about 3/4 in down the string and see how you like it. If not no problem, if you do you can tune to the crawl.
I love it for all hunting purposes it is very quick and intuitive.

[ThePushArchery]

Good deal JR!!!

My findings have been the same as yours.

Aiming and taking advantage of manageable gaps was a very liberating experience in transitioning to knowing without a shadow of a doubt where your arrow would impact.

Glad you enjoyed the film.

[robertson]

Bravo for the film very well done .

           

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Nicely done, although I will admit to not watching the whole thing.  Life is a  bit busy and my computer is so slow, I cannot watch the video without constant buffering interruptions.  grrrr

Thank you for putting it out there.

[Trond]

Nicely made video, but I have one concern. He talks about using this method in competitions as well as in the wood. Rules in 3D competitions dictate that string walking or face-walking is prohibited when shooting in instinct or longbow class. Something to keep in mind...

[ThePushArchery]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback.

Trond, you are correct, some classes in competition require your finger to touch the arrow nock. Definitely check the rules of the organizations / classes you intend to compete in for sure.

Shoot straight!

[FlintNSteel]

You should be very proud of your video.  I've been shooting since the early 70's and worked in a pro-shop for some time.  I've never seen an instructional archery  video that was done as well as yours.  Congratulations and thanks.

A very good friend of mine was a string walker back when we both did a lot of competitive NFAA-style round shooting in the late 70's and 80's.  There were two string walkers I knew at the time.  No one in the barebow classes could touch these two guys and I personally saw my good friend shoot perfect animal rounds frequently, and very high-scoring spot rounds.  These two guys rivaled some of the best sight/release shooters.  

I had to chuckle a bit when you were discussing the three-point anchor with the nock touching the nose as it took me back in time seeing my friend with a bloody spot from the nock set rubbing his nose by the end of every shoot!